Tiberian Dawn Training

Free one-on-one training and practice

Discussion about the game and its default mods.
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anjew
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Tiberian Dawn Training

Post by anjew » Fri Feb 03, 2017 6:27 am

As of recent the Tiberian Dawn 1v1 scene has been dwindly in numbers. This is from a combination of timezone differences as well as a lack of players who are willing to put in the effort to get good at this game. Most become intimidated when they see a veteran player or some just prefer teamgames. In the future I want to do a TD version of the RAGL but as of now the numbers are lacking so in order to rectify this I am offering my time and knowledge.

I wouldn't be here today without the mentoring AoAGeneral gave me and I want to give others that possibility. Im willing to offer free one-on-one training with any and all players who want to be their best at TD. This can be through demo reviews, spectating/coaching in game and practice. All I ask is that you have voice communication and the drive to be the best.
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Sleipnir
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Post by Sleipnir » Fri Feb 03, 2017 8:45 am

I recall discussions from several months ago about how prominent TD players were being abusive (or, at best, assholes) towards new players. I also recall that the response from other prominent TD players was that this kind of behaviour is acceptable, and that it is the newbies' fault for not hardening up and learning to play.

Well... this is what happens. If the community builds an atmosphere that is hostile to new players then it shouldn't be surprising that new players don't want to stick around long enough to "git good" to the pro-1v1 standards.

Edit: replaced the "you"s (which was intended as a collective "you" to the 1v1 scene, but reads like it was specifically targeting anjew) with more clear terms.
Last edited by Sleipnir on Fri Feb 03, 2017 6:42 pm, edited 2 times in total.

AMHOL
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Post by AMHOL » Fri Feb 03, 2017 12:36 pm

Sleipnir wrote: I recall discussions from several months ago about how prominent TD players were being abusive (or, at best, assholes) towards new players. I also recall that the response from other prominent TD players was that this kind of behaviour is acceptable, and that it is the newbies' fault for not hardening up and learning to play.

Well... this is what you get. If you build a community atmosphere that is hostile to new players then you really shouldn't be surprised that you run out of people to play with, because new people don't want to stick around long enough to "git good" to your standards.
I remember when I first started playing, wee man was a dick because I was terrible at OpenRA, so I decided I was going to get good enough to kick his arse, people are too soft these days, If I gave up every time someone said mean things to me on the internet I may as well have cancelled my broadband connection by now.

You're always going to encounter dick heads, just give some back and crack on.

That being said, I do try to not be a dick to people unnecessarily.

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anjew
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Post by anjew » Fri Feb 03, 2017 2:29 pm

Sleipnir wrote: I recall discussions from several months ago about how prominent TD players were being abusive (or, at best, assholes) towards new players. I also recall that the response from other prominent TD players was that this kind of behaviour is acceptable, and that it is the newbies' fault for not hardening up and learning to play.

Well... this is what you get. If you build a community atmosphere that is hostile to new players then you really shouldn't be surprised that you run out of people to play with, because new people don't want to stick around long enough to "git good" to your standards.
Im never a cunt to players because they are new and the most 'abusive' it gets is someone telling someone they are new and then telling them how to play the game. Perhaps you could tell me what you have seen in game pchote?

Regardless, thank you for this off-topic attempt at attacking me. Im glad to see this is how the OpenRA lead developer reacts when someone offers help to the playerbase.
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noobmapmaker
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Post by noobmapmaker » Fri Feb 03, 2017 6:16 pm

Not sure if I'm the one to say it, but I'm going to say it regardless.

For the sake of OpenRA, please all put your grudges aside. I don't know what started it and probably everyone has good reason to be annoyed and I bet there has been alot of wrongdoing by several people. But there is no point in continuing these personal fits and to let them become a drag on the community - if that is proper English.

Forget the past and be constructive, positive, fun. If you think about posting cynism, passive agressive or straight-out rude posts then... don't post it. Eithee rephrase it to something neutral or don't interact with the person that annoys you. If you are not able to do that, then you are part of a negative spiral that -even though you are completely on the right side of the argument- the overwhelming majority doesn't like. So please let it go to prevent this becoming something big.

This is to anyone who is angry at other OpenRA people.
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CampinJeff
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Post by CampinJeff » Fri Feb 03, 2017 7:44 pm

Players are dropping because RTS games in general are simply difficult to learn, and openra TD is no exception. I've seen people give up on the game because of loss after loss after loss, and eventually the fun goes away and the game becomes a pain to play. People don't know who's a good player or not. One new player on a 3v3 game with 5 experienced players will completely throw the balance off and the blame will be directed obviously to the person who least contributed. It's also incredibly easy to smurf without any kind of account registration.

As for the people who do get good at the game, chances are they'll find something more intriguing or lose interest. I haven't been playing at all recently not because of the community but because of the simple dynamic of just spamming tanks out and managing economy. Every single game. You try something different, and you end up falling behind if you don't get lucky enough. Either that or it's the rock paper scissors mentality of one build countering another. I have fun with it in short bursts, but in the long run it's hard to stay with it.

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AoAGeneral1
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Post by AoAGeneral1 » Fri Feb 03, 2017 9:36 pm

One build countering another is RTS logic. Its been that way since StarCraft BroodWar and is what made it a balanced game. The thing is people don't play it as much because of the APM needed to get good. SC2 is the same but it isn't a balanced game.

CNC3 suffered from balance failing and poor unit control mechanics.

The older RTS series such as CNC has the edge for everyone to get engaged into it where you don't need a high APM to be good at the game.

The problem CampinJeff mentions is already a known issue and is presented in Bleed with another being worked on (Aircraft balances). The edge that OpenRA has is if something is found it can be fixed.

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SoScared
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Post by SoScared » Sat Feb 04, 2017 12:25 am

The previous 2 release presented us with 37 balance changes for the TD mod and the current bleed is shipping 52 for the next release. Not saying these changes by themselves are bad but one could see how that might have isolated the competitive core and started putting some real distance between competitive and casual play. TD might need some time to settle before a new healthy rank pyramid grows back into the player base.

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KOYK_GR
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Post by KOYK_GR » Sat Feb 04, 2017 1:25 am

Sleipnir wrote: If the community builds an atmosphere that is hostile to new players then it shouldn't be surprising that new players don't want to stick around long enough to "git good" to the pro-1v1 standards.
about that..i have a list with names...but ill wait for the in game account thingy,and then ill start striking out off my list the names.

but any way,i personally can say that i have seen good players some of them are trump supporter (that might be temporary nick name,but that's how i know him)norman,oterfisk,gatekeeper,zypres and the list can go on,at least for the RA.on TD i only know (and remember)norman.

at the time am trying to be good at RA. I can say that 1vs1 is not my thing,not because of the difficulty but i prefer team games,they tend to last more,and its more fun to play with your RA buddy's,helping out and feel that others can count on you.

TD is a different story for me,i prefer TD to be more of a single player thing,vs AI or coop.but not truly MP,but this is a nostalgia thing.

(if only we could adjust the zoom level with our mouse wheel at the level we want and not that predetermined 640x480,not that i am trying to say that my nostalgia resolution was 800x600 ehem pchote)

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Materianer
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Post by Materianer » Sat Feb 04, 2017 2:27 am

KOYK_GR wrote: but any way,i personally can say that i have seen good players some of them are trump supporter (that might be temporary nick name,but that's how i know him)norman,oterfisk,gatekeeper,zypres and the list can go on,at least for the RA.on TD i only know (and remember)norman.
You need some time to get into the game and it is really hard for newbies, i remember the ti me when i started playing TD with norman. Insert and some other players always bashed us, but we didnt give up and so we got better and winning games.

I think the mainreason for the low frequenting playerbase is because C&C was not so popular in 90Å›. I know i had both when i was young c&c and ra.
i played c&c like 2-3 times and ra for years.

i think makeing td more newbiefriendly is a good idea but how to do this?

What i also really like is these awesome TD-Mod maps there you should maybe put some of then into the standard maps for more fun. :lol:

eskimo
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Post by eskimo » Sun Feb 05, 2017 7:09 pm

If you/anyone catches me on Openra i'll happily come play TD. The lack of players is the only reason for not hanging out in the lobby for me

Lucy
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Post by Lucy » Sun Feb 05, 2017 10:52 pm

Hey anjew, I'd love a few lessons if you wouldn't mind :)

AMHOL
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Post by AMHOL » Mon Feb 06, 2017 5:37 pm

KOYK_GR wrote:
Sleipnir wrote: If the community builds an atmosphere that is hostile to new players then it shouldn't be surprising that new players don't want to stick around long enough to "git good" to the pro-1v1 standards.
about that..i have a list with names...but ill wait for the in game account thingy,and then ill start striking out off my list the names.

but any way,i personally can say that i have seen good players some of them are trump supporter (that might be temporary nick name,but that's how i know him)norman,oterfisk,gatekeeper,zypres and the list can go on,at least for the RA.on TD i only know (and remember)norman.

at the time am trying to be good at RA. I can say that 1vs1 is not my thing,not because of the difficulty but i prefer team games,they tend to last more,and its more fun to play with your RA buddy's,helping out and feel that others can count on you.

TD is a different story for me,i prefer TD to be more of a single player thing,vs AI or coop.but not truly MP,but this is a nostalgia thing.

(if only we could adjust the zoom level with our mouse wheel at the level we want and not that predetermined 640x480,not that i am trying to say that my nostalgia resolution was 800x600 ehem pchote)
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zinc
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Post by zinc » Tue Feb 07, 2017 2:33 pm

AMHOL wrote:
Sleipnir wrote: I recall discussions from several months ago about how prominent TD players were being abusive (or, at best, assholes) towards new players. I also recall that the response from other prominent TD players was that this kind of behaviour is acceptable, and that it is the newbies' fault for not hardening up and learning to play.

Well... this is what you get. If you build a community atmosphere that is hostile to new players then you really shouldn't be surprised that you run out of people to play with, because new people don't want to stick around long enough to "git good" to your standards.
I remember when I first started playing, wee man was a dick because I was terrible at OpenRA, so I decided I was going to get good enough to kick his arse, people are too soft these days, If I gave up every time someone said mean things to me on the internet I may as well have cancelled my broadband connection by now.

You're always going to encounter dick heads, just give some back and crack on.

That being said, I do try to not be a dick to people unnecessarily.
If it puts some people off playing, then it doesn't really matter if they are "too soft" or not. They still aren't coming back. We can't fix a cultural problem of people being too soft!

As I have said elsewhere, I think we should warn new players about this issue, and encourage them not to take it too personally, at the same time as we encourage experienced players not to be jerks over it.

zinc
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Post by zinc » Tue Feb 07, 2017 2:39 pm

Newbies aren't all bad. Yes, one newbie can sometimes kill game balance in a team game. But actually sometimes it's good to play with them because it makes the game more challenging. It's like you are playing 2 v 1.5, where you have to make up for your newbie team mate to win the game.

You can actually have some fun games precisely because of having a "lesser" team mate.

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