On game balance through map design

tldr; We’re outgrowing our maps!

Discussion about the game and its default mods.
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Smitty
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On game balance through map design

Post by Smitty »

The following post only addresses map design in the 1v1 competitive scene. If team play is more to your taste, this is the best I have to offer: http://resource.openra.net/maps/17971/ :shifty:

With the next release looming players are hard at work play testing potential balance changes and lobbying for the changes they want to see.
The big focus here is making the game more fluid, and less likely to devolve into an artillery/v2 spitting contest behind static defense.

While some of these changes are absolutely necessary, (pillboxes), I believe the problem of stale play can largely be addressed through better maps; and the need for better maps is BIG.

First, lets take a look at the season 2 RAGL map pool.
Of the twelve maps listed, there are only two (2!) maps in my opinion that are fluid enough to make the next official release/map pool.
In large part, last season’s maps were limited by either excessive choke points, a lack of viable attack paths, bad eco, or a combination of the three.
With apologies to the map makers, I’m going to rank the season 2 map pool on my experience as a player and spectator.

Smitty’s RAGL Map Pool Power Rankings
* No ranking for Crossfire, as I have yet to play a 1v1 match on it, though I’m sure it has entirely too much eco for a 1v1 map.
1. Sidestep
2. Warwind
3. Northwest Passage
4. Behind the Veil
5. Ore Lord (Spawns are unbalanced)
6. Tournament Island (Needs much less eco for 1v1)
7. Winter Storm
8. Dual Cold Front
9. Desert Rats
10. Keep Off the Grass 2
11. Being Hit by a Car
12. Singles

That leaves my cutoff point at Warwind.
After number 6 there is a huge drop off in mobility, and the chance of a game turning into an artillery duel goes way up.

Fortunately, there are some golden opportunities to address 1v1 maps before the next release:

1. Maps can be made great again!

Chokes can be made wider, new attack paths can be opened up, and ore can be moved to require a more active defense.
Nothing illustrates this point better than what Kyrylo did with his re-imagining of Behind the Veil.

Image

Behind the Veil v2‘s major improvement lies in changes to the expansions in the top right and lower left of the map.
First, the chokes into the expansion have been widened, making it harder to scare off an army with just static defense.
Second, the ores have been split, which adds both a new path of attack and another way to contest eco as an attacking player.
Add in the other improvements that Kyrylo made, including an extra path into the spawn area, and you have a map more than worthy of replacing it’s predecessor.

I took a look at addressing the problems of Dual Cold Front and Desert Rats. Making edits I dubbed ‘Smitty Editions’ I looked to widen chokes and put additional areas of the maps in play.
I’ll be honest, I don’t think my edits bring these maps into a condition where they should be played competitively. (And Desert Rats may not be savable at it’s current size.) However, the edits did have a noticeable impact on player movement.

http://resource.openra.net/maps/17961/
http://resource.openra.net/maps/17937/

Just before I made this post, km sent me his re-imagining of Dual Cold Front without the river:
http://resource.openra.net/maps/18086/

2. There are some good maps already out there!

There are a handful of maps out there that can contend for a spot on Smitty’s Top Twleve list.

My favorite of these so far is Shadow Fiend by Kazu.
http://resource.openra.net/maps/17880/
The most important feature of this map is the center. The center is a large, open space that allows for movement to every key area of the map.
Like every other game, bases will be built in such a key area, but the size makes it hard to lock down without a considerable investment from a turtling player.
The map also has good sized access points for each expansion as well as raiding paths into the spawns and corner oil derricks.

Small maps that only have two viable paths of attack and forsake the middle like Desert Rats and Keep off the Grass 2 are not to my taste, but if you’re into those kind of things I would recommend Green Belt by Christian as a replacement.
Outside of the middle, Green Belt keeps things open, allowing players to find angles of attack around their opponents expansions.
http://resource.openra.net/maps/17256/

3. There’s a map making contest coming up!

The map making contest gives us a golden opportunity to add some new life to the competitive 1v1 pool.

Here are some tricks and tips to add competitive flow to your map:

- Mind the choke point: Choke points are fine, but keep in mind if you want full armies to pass through them or if you just want them to support small raiding parties.
One of the major flaws with Dual Cold Front is that the chokes in the middle, which are clearly intended to have armies pass through them, are only four cells wide. I would aim for 7-12 cells.

- On a similar note, bridges and river crossings can only support two cells of army movement. I you place one, know that only small bands of infantry can reasonably cross.

- Multiple attack paths: Strategic objectives, well okay that’s pretty much just ore, should have multiple points of attack that are not easily locked down by a small amount of static defenses.
Three or more is my target number here.

- Don’t pin ore against an easily defended cliff or the edge of the map to allow for eco raiding.

- Place derricks to add to action in the early game. It’s okay if the chance of them getting destroyed later is above 90%.
Don’t place them in an easily defended corner of the map where they will be forgotten for the rest of the game.
For eco purposes I would place no more than 4 derricks on a map; two for each player.

- Make the line of symmetry something other than 0 or 90 degrees (straight across or straight up and down the map.)
Simple geometry; a line going diagonally across a square or rectangle will be longer than a line straight up or down or left to right.
By making a map orient diagonally the surface area of likely combat will be increased.

- If you don’t want the base crawl to influence an area, use trees and debris to allow passage without allowing structure placement.
Remember that the MCV needs 3x4 cells to set up.


In summary, I feel a robust map pool is the key to the next big leap in the progress of OpenRA. I encourage everyone able to participate in designing, playtesting and lobbying towards better flowing maps.

And once more, apologies to the creators of the maps I've called out. Most of these maps have produced very good games before the meta shifted. I know it's not easy, so I'll be sticking my neck out too in this year's map contest.

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SoScared
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Post by SoScared »

Best discussion thread out there imo and no replies. I personally haven't had much time for ORA the past few weeks but this is definitely bookmarked for digging into!

zinc
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Post by zinc »

I'm all for addressing this issue via different maps. In fact, I think the issue *should* be addressed in this way. Absolutely the game should (often) be about mobile armies. But that doesn't mean there is anything wrong with chokepoint maps. Plenty of people get enjoyment out of that kind of game.

zinc
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Post by zinc »

I'm all for addressing this issue via different maps. In fact, I think the issue *should* be addressed in this way. Absolutely the game should (often) be about mobile armies. But that doesn't mean there us anything wrong with chokepoint maps. Plenty of people get enjoyment out of that kind of game.

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Doomsday
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Post by Doomsday »

With map making competition and RAGL season 3 coming up this is a great time to bring up the subject of map design and balance. Many players will create new maps for the competition and hopefully we get some new good ones for next season.

I agree some of the maps are too chokepointy. But then again RAGL map pool should have some maps that are less open for players to choose as their home maps if they wish to do so.
Smitty wrote: 6. Tournament Island (Needs much less eco for 1v1)
What do you think is a good amount of eco for a 1v1 map? I've been using about 12 ore fields total as my basic guideline.
zinc wrote: But that doesn't mean there us anything wrong with chokepoint maps. Plenty of people get enjoyment out of that kind of game.
That is correct. I've noticed a lot of the common multiplayer maps have excessive choke points. But I want to point out this thread is about competitive 1v1 scene and feels like majority of people playing competitive games share their opinion about Singles being worse than getting hit by a car.
The supreme art of war is to subdue the enemy without fighting.
-Sun Tzu

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Blackened
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Post by Blackened »

There is too much to be said on maps. But what it boils down to is we need a diverse and robust map pool. We need a few more open maps and or a few more bigger maps but that doesn't mean we should get rid of every small or chokey map.

Every map eliminates certain play styles and highlights others. Each person should be free to choose a map that highlights their own play style.
What do you think is a good amount of eco for a 1v1 map? I've been using about 12 ore fields total as my basic guideline.

I think it's less about the amount and more about accessibility to eco. Tournament Island feels like it has too much eco for a 1v1 because with 1 base you essentially have every eco point you need for the game. Dual Cold front and Northwest Passage actually have more ore than Tournament Island but I doubt many people would say there's too much eco on that map as you have to expand and expend to get to all the points.


Also Singles sucks because of the many strategies in this game only 2 work on Singles.

crlf
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Post by crlf »

The observation that what works right now has a lot to do with the maps has a lot of truth to it, I think. A number of popular maps have one or two crucial paths which make dynamic games unlikely and and comebacks extremely difficult.

My one fear is that moving towards big maps with few significant chokepoints and open ore will not only make scouting more important but also a lot more expensive - it's harder to see the expansions if there are more places to put them, and also harder to find the blob if there are more angles they're coming from. And if the map is bigger, each unit's visibility radius is that much smaller as a proportion of the battlefield. There are other factors pushing the same way including our ability as humans to keep track of our scouts.

As a result, if you eschew scouting and just build a massive blob on a big open map, sometimes you'll be scouted and countered soon enough, more often I fear you won't. And because the map is bigger, the forces the defender has are more distant and harder to use in a counter. The result is the game becomes more reliant on pure chance. And of course, the size of the blob you're trying to find on the map won't scale with the map either, in fact it can be more compact because it doesn't get strung out by chokes.

We're a long way from that now, but I think we want to be careful of going too big/open.

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Raishiwi
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Post by Raishiwi »

I need Roadkings in my life for Season 3. Make it happen SoS!

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