[RA] Faster parabombs ?

Discussion about the game and its default mods.

Faster parabombs ?

Yes
4
31%
No
9
69%
 
Total votes: 13

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FRenzy
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[RA] Faster parabombs ?

Post by FRenzy » Fri Aug 05, 2016 1:31 pm

Currently, on maps big enough (even 1v1 maps), it can be very hard to hit an army with parabombs, due to their low speed. Especially if the action is happening in the center of the map.

It feels to me that this is sometimes a really useless ability for Ukraine, which is already hard to play. + it comes only every 6 min ...

In TD, it feels the Airstrikes are much more efficient and useful.

Should the bombers become faster ? (for instance, 2x faster)

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MustaphaTR
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Post by MustaphaTR » Fri Aug 05, 2016 1:35 pm

Balancewise, OK but i'm not sure how logical is a Badger going in same speed with an A-10.

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FRenzy
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Post by FRenzy » Fri Aug 05, 2016 1:47 pm

From what I just read, about aircraft speeds :

Badger : 149
YAK : 178
MIG : 223
A-10 : 373 (dunno if TD's speeds are comparable to RA's)

Yeah so probably shouldn't be 2x faster. But something closer to Yaks, or even Migs.

klaas
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Post by klaas » Fri Aug 05, 2016 1:49 pm

I do not think parabombs are underpowered. They are pretty effective vs. buildings too, for instance tech centers or base defences before/ during an attack. I've seen them used as game changers more than once, not bad for a support power that is so easy to get.

Edit: you mean the speed of the badger itself? I'd say its good you can save your army. Maybe being able to chose the angle, or automatically choosing the shortest path could take away some of the randomness.

Murto the Ray
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Post by Murto the Ray » Fri Aug 05, 2016 1:56 pm

Someone implemented parabombs that allowed you to control the direction they came from some while back. I would much prefer that.

Edit: Link Here

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FRenzy
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Post by FRenzy » Fri Aug 05, 2016 1:58 pm

Yes, against static defences it's an effective support power.

But using it against moving armies is really hard. I usually try to bait my enemy and pin him into a position, then launching the airstrike on his army. But most of the time, it fails (he moves for some reason), even though the badgers were in his Fog of War.

I think making the badgers faster can change one thing : if the enemy spots them on route, he can avoid them. If not, then it'll be too late for him.

Very similarly to the demo truck, it should be a question of being seen or not, IMO.

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FRenzy
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Post by FRenzy » Fri Aug 05, 2016 2:00 pm

Also the shortest path / angle implementation can be good !
But in the center of the map, it changes nothing (except maybe coming under the Fog of War with the angle)

Edit : I really like actually the choosing angle idea, gives more control (avoid static AA, coming under FoW, shortest path, ... ).
But still, badgers are too slow :p

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FRenzy
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Post by FRenzy » Fri Aug 05, 2016 9:13 pm

An example (not the best I've executed :D ) to show what I mean ^_^

https://youtu.be/whhcSUhohHg?t=20m25s

epice
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Post by epice » Sat Aug 06, 2016 3:57 am

Just let me pick what side of the fucking screen the planes come from.

I mean jesus fuck sometimes they come right from the closest side and other times from the absolute farthest. NO WAY TO TELL WHAT WILL HAPPEN!

Murto the Ray
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Post by Murto the Ray » Sat Aug 06, 2016 7:52 am

There not much point complaining about the middle taking time to get to, most of the area on the map is on the border.

If we take a map of dimensions 100x100 (pretty common for an RA map) and say that a 10 cell border is what we consider as the map's border (10% of the map width/height) then we will see that the border is actually a huge part of the map albeit a relatively smaller width than the rest of the map:

area of map = 1002 = 10000

area of border = 2 * (100 * 10 + 80 * 10) = 3600

area ratio = 10000 : 3600 = 100 : 36

so this 10% width border holds over a third of the map area. i.e. unit are will be in this border a third of the time when moving around - assuming equal distribution of map features.

But what if we add another 10% width to make it 20 wide? well, lets see....

map area = 10000

area of border = 2 * (100 * 20 + 60 * 20) = 6400

area ratio = 10000 : 6400 = 100 : 64

so now a majority of area lies on the border, leaving a minority of tiles in the middle.

Of course, some maps have all of their attack paths in the centre of the map but the best use for parabombs tends to be when someone manages to get an army close to your base and you need a way of taking them out or delaying them for your army. - most sneaky attack paths tend to be on the outer edges of maps. In the centre you will usually find static defence that wont have moved by the time the parabombs get there AND being able to select an attack path is valuable in this situation too as it means you wont have them running into AA guns out of your control.

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FRenzy
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Post by FRenzy » Sat Aug 06, 2016 8:36 am

Hmm, good point there Murto.

However, this doesn't work in all scenarios.
For instance, maps with a water / unused edge (Dual Cold Front, Tourney Island, ...). Or on team maps where a lot happens in the middle (Haos, Asym Battle, ...)

Also, even for 1v1 maps, I don't necessarily agree that "In the centre you will usually find static defence". Some maps are not buildable in the center, and you often find moving armies there (Behind the Veil, Winter Storm, Warwind , ...)

Of course, bombing a sneaking army can be a good point, and very clever !
However, as said before, sometimes the enemy army is in the middle, and I don't want to wait till they sneak into my base in order to attack them ^_^ (+ it comes only every 6mins, I want to use as much as possible :) )
I might wanna destroy them now, preventively, so that I can follow it ASAP with an attack, for instance.

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AoAGeneral1
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Post by AoAGeneral1 » Sat Aug 06, 2016 8:45 am

I would personally prefer to have a mechanic to choose which side the aircraft comes in at. (For both RA and TD)

This would allow not only the aircraft to choose the quickest and effective way to bomb at but to also avoid the enemies base altogether. Often times you send the bombs and they fly directly over the enemies base instead and get shot down.

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FRenzy
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Post by FRenzy » Sat Aug 06, 2016 9:21 am

AoAGeneral1 wrote: I would personally prefer to have a mechanic to choose which side the aircraft comes in at. (For both RA and TD)

This would allow not only the aircraft to choose the quickest and effective way to bomb at but to also avoid the enemies base altogether. Often times you send the bombs and they fly directly over the enemies base instead and get shot down.
I totally agree to that ! :) like said a few messages earlier, I really love the idea. I don't think anybody will oppose that :p

But still, regarding to my last reply, I additionally think that badgers need a speed boost too :)

Concret
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Post by Concret » Sat Aug 06, 2016 10:15 am

Another way to make the A10's and Parabombs / drops more solid is by letting them always fly in from the same angle, which would be closest to your own base. Or the map-edge that's closest to the Comms centre.

This way you as a player can actually somewhat time the arrival of the airstrike. IE: around your own base = quick, and at the other side of the map = longer. Atleast you can then time it better.

I wouldn't want to decide the angle before every airstrike, since it'll be an extra click ( I assume?)


Not sure if Parabombs should be used on moving units or if it's more for base-bombing. In TD it's a couple of A10's which are per definition used for battlefield attacks. Maybe get a Mig Strike for RA? 8)

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FRenzy
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Post by FRenzy » Sun Aug 07, 2016 11:16 am

Concret wrote: I wouldn't want to decide the angle before every airstrike, since it'll be an extra click ( I assume?)
https://github.com/OpenRA/OpenRA/issues/4873
It will be a drag-and-drop action. But if you only click once, it chooses a random direction, as it's already the case.
Concret wrote: Not sure if Parabombs should be used on moving units or if it's more for base-bombing.
Currently, it's not very effective against buildings, except Tech Centers, and static defences I think. It's not like the Carpet Bombing from Generals for instance, which could deal a significant amount of damage to buildings and units ^_^ (you could easily destroy any building with 2 support powers)
https://youtu.be/cfPrgNNGkto?t=12m10s
Concret wrote: Maybe get a Mig Strike for RA? 8)
Hmm, interesting idea.
Apparently, according to wiki, MIGs can carry general purpose bombs.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mikoyan-Gurevich_MiG-23
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mikoyan_MiG-27

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