MiG with Air-Air Missiles

make airunits great!

Discussion about the game and its default mods.

MiG with Air-Air missiles?

YES!!
25
83%
NO!!
5
17%
 
Total votes: 30

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Marn
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Post by Marn » Wed Jun 01, 2016 1:51 am

I would suggest to make a custom map, grab another player and test squad vs squad battles, migs vs longbows.
Migs are already made out of paper, have to reload, and it's next to impossible to suicide them in to blobs so I don't see how adding aa could ruin everything.
Plus it's a huge investment, last time Kyrilo was trying to build them on one of my moded maps he lost, because he wasted too much money on them. If you feel migs are too fast make them a tad slower, and make sure missiles can catch up to them when fired upon.

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Norman_
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Post by Norman_ » Wed Jun 01, 2016 3:38 am

yeah, it really needs much testing and detail tweaking, testing and tweaking again before its possible to use aa migs in hopefully all possible situations in a balanced way.
impossible to balance playing vs ai - if somebody is interested in the mig aa idea and want to playtest it with me, that would be nice :)
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PersianImmortal
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Post by PersianImmortal » Wed Jun 01, 2016 2:13 pm

Yes. Make Migs Great Again!
We tested the Migs and Norman got rid of most of the wonky behavior concerning air to air missiles.

As of now Migs are useless. Air to Air migs give soviets a key counter to the allied arty crawl strat by allowing the migs to snipe the allies hinds out of the air. The hinds serve as the eyes in most arty crawl situations.
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noobmapmaker
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Post by noobmapmaker » Wed Jun 01, 2016 6:04 pm

Good point!
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SoScared
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Post by SoScared » Wed Jun 01, 2016 9:47 pm

It looks like the biggest issue of all when it comes to AA MiGs is the playtesting. The MiG and Longbow are extremely low priority in the current meta that if you want to test them out in an honest, competitive match, you would expect them to be used perhaps only in a fraction of the matches. AA MiGs has the potential to offset a big chunk of variables in the game balance and I think the only way of really figuring out if it works is to let it loose on an official playtest. I think if people want to see AA MiGs properly worked into the release one day, one would have to be willing to take the risk and include it into a playtest sooner rather than later.

The AA MiG on Norman's map looks far from intimidating vs Longbow but I'm way more interested to see e.g. how it would affect YAKs and HINDs. Hypothetically it would slow down spam but again, it's all gonna come down to if players are willing to build AA MiGs/Longbows at all. Lowering the cost and adding some proposed buffs seems like the way to go but we can't force it to be a super powerful unit in order to coerce players in rushing the units or replace the roles of the lower tier units.

I'd love to help out with playtesting AA MiGs on stream regularly in few weeks but I'd be careful hoping for convincing demonstrations in competitive matches.

PersianImmortal
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Post by PersianImmortal » Thu Jun 02, 2016 12:11 pm

I'm down to test them out in a few weeks when my schedule begins to clear up.
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Norman_
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Post by Norman_ » Thu Jun 02, 2016 1:48 pm

nice :)
we could think about how to improve longbows then too and test migs in smaller and larger groups vs them etc.
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Kwendy
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Post by Kwendy » Sat Jun 04, 2016 10:12 am

ATM MiGs are more of a really expencive scouts. Technically you can use them to snipe some vehicles, but it have tendencies to be very unefficient trade.
A) You build one and enjoy superior field of vision (really worth it, also helps your allied comrade).
B) You make a flock of five and snipe the harvesters (10k investments wich may or may not pay off).
C) You get two or three and snipe navy (with some good micro it might be the best way to counter allied fleet).
D) You dominate the map, getting resources and build them just for fun.
+
Edit: can't longbows be buffed in "soft" ways like increasing rocket speed or minor AOE or less delay before firing salvo?

Shinnoky
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Joined: Mon Nov 09, 2015 1:39 pm

Post by Shinnoky » Sat Jun 04, 2016 11:15 am

I have watched an replay from FiveAces where he uses the migs, ofcourse i know if he is using air it's already OP :P

I was really for anti air for migs but now i have doubts. If they get anti air and someone plays it like FiveAces they could get OP.

I saw how easy it was for him to make sure that rocket soldiers couldn't hit the migs ( only later that game he lost some from rocket soldiers, maybe he was getting tired XD )
Giving the migs anti air will also deal with the longbows and then there is no counter anymore against them if you do hit and run.

If the migs get anti air, make sure that longbows can counter them and that migs take a risk if they attack longbows ( that they can't just hit and run them ). Else allies can't do nothing anymore except AA guns against migs.

Kwendy
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Post by Kwendy » Sat Jun 04, 2016 12:59 pm

Shinnoky wrote: I have watched an replay from FiveAces where he uses the migs, ofcourse i know if he is using air it's already OP :P
That's curious.
Did he overtook the map first? Because it's not really main force material (they can't do jack to infantry and aren't really fast in killing tank blobs as they need to hit-and-run).
How much did he actually managed to snipe? It's good if they pay for themself, but it's comparable to MCV loss if you missmicro them for a second.

Shinnoky
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Post by Shinnoky » Sat Jun 04, 2016 1:18 pm

He was sniping tanks that where riding ahead from the infantry blob mostly, or harversters or buildings that weren't protected with anti air with the nice scout vision.. And you see here the hit and run tactic. Migs can escape really fast from missile fire.

http://www.gamereplays.org/openra/repla ... &id=311880

Kwendy
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Post by Kwendy » Sat Jun 04, 2016 2:46 pm

Ok, separate cue for them definetly an advantage. And counter-allies unit preservation.
Watched the replay. Allies did got punished for not having a dedicated AA units, but that is why basecrawl is so popular in random battles. Single cue'd AA gun that drain 10-20% of your assets down the toilet is no joke.
About cost-efficiency - abot 20k worth MiGs during the game sniped couple of grands worth harvesters and about twenty med and light tanks.
I guess in that particular game AA MiGs would really be OP.

Kwendy
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Post by Kwendy » Sun Jun 05, 2016 9:53 am

Well then, if you think about it, won't nine hinds, two rocket soldiers and one rifle infantry do better in the same situation then six MiG's?

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anjew
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Post by anjew » Sun Jun 26, 2016 5:05 pm

Still an interesting idea. The migs are low in the meta which imo isnt good for any unit
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MustaphaTR
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Post by MustaphaTR » Fri Jul 01, 2016 7:59 am

MiGs have AA missiles in my modmaps and it makes them really useful. I never build a MiG in other maps. Maybe we should give them short enough AA range to let a Longbow fire back before being killed. Or give them less AA damage so it takes more hits to kill. Current aircrafts are lighly armored and have low HP so current Maverick missile damage is killing one with two hit(as it has Burst=2, it can be caunt as one hit).

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