Lets do something about artillery

zinc · Post by **zinc** » Tue May 03, 2016 11:35 am

On something like the doubles map, where artillery can be very useful as you basically fight over the middle ore and can easily build up base defences to protect your artillery, I'm not even sure that two good allies would have an advantage over two good soviets. Perhaps. Perhaps not. But even if they did, I don't believe they would have an advantage against a split team with one playing allies and the other soviet. So the game is "balanced" in that both factions can be successfully played and enjoyed.

lazygecko · Post by **lazygecko** » Tue May 03, 2016 11:41 am

Maybe nerfing hinds a bit is a better choice? They seem a bit too good at taking out flaks which is the primary counter to arty+hinds. It seems that the soviet player has to put significantly more effort into out-microing them to stand a chance, since they die pretty fast from hind attacks. Might just have something to do with the game logic as well since AFAIK flaks will not start attacking stuff in range while they are moving, and you need them constantly moving to avoid the rain of arty shells.

zinc · Post by **zinc** » Tue May 03, 2016 11:54 am

lazygecko wrote: ↑Maybe nerfing hinds a bit is a better choice? They seem a bit too good at taking out flaks which is the primary counter to arty+hinds.

The flak trucks used to be complete rubbish but now I think they are reasonable for the price and build time.

yaks are pretty kick ass now for base destruction so if anything they have an advantage over hinds; with the exception of providing sight on the battlefield.

GoldenHippo · Post by **GoldenHippo** » Tue May 03, 2016 12:33 pm

How abut just slightly decreasing the rate of fire? Or as said before, make them slightly less accurate ala the cruiser. They don't need changing much.

noobmapmaker · Post by **noobmapmaker** » Tue May 03, 2016 2:15 pm

It's something like that would be good allready. Less accurate: still good against blobs and if you got 4/5 of them.

epice · Post by **epice** » Tue May 03, 2016 7:41 pm

Less accurate, lower rate of fire, and decrease how much view range aircraft have.

noobmapmaker · Post by **noobmapmaker** » Tue May 03, 2016 8:30 pm

How about -3% accuracy, 14range = 13 range and -5% fire rate.

It would really nerf them while not really hurting them at the same time. If that makes sense.

Flak_Lives_Matter · Post by **Flak_Lives_Matter** » Wed May 04, 2016 12:40 am

The Soviet counter is the IC which is pretty effective but requires that the Soviet player teched up where the Allied player only needs a radar dome. On low eco maps this spells trouble leaving only yaks. The yak counter is almost useless if there is a single AA gun.

I like the idea of arty having a wider spread or lower rate of fire.

AoAGeneral1 · Post by **AoAGeneral1** » Wed May 04, 2016 4:06 am

Just be careful on tweaking the arty range and accuracy. When you tweak the accuracy complete shells can miss entirely several times doing null damage. However, if you shorten the range on the arty it will be more accurate due to how close it is. Its why the TD arty is fairly devastating.

klaas · Post by **klaas** » Wed May 04, 2016 8:29 am

I don't think making artillery less accurate will make it any less useful in base walking. Actually, it can make it even more devastating, since you can just use force-attack on the ground, and lay random havoc on a larger area. A group of units will absolutely tear apart swaps of base without any micro needed whatsoever.

noobmapmaker · Post by **noobmapmaker** » Wed May 04, 2016 1:19 pm

But they also will be less useful to snipe a building!

SoScared · Post by **SoScared** » Thu May 05, 2016 9:44 pm

I've been opposed to nerfing the arty since I've started playing OpenRA but I'm seeing some favorable arguments when it comes to nerfing the range from 14 to 12.

Experienced players using the arty are more active with it and will bring it out in the open together with the ground army to protect them against land and air assaults. Artillery smothers infantry and can still siege with 12 range. Being dependent on vision from other units the arty doesn't benefit much from the extra 2 cells of range when used actively.

A 2 cell range nerf will to a certain extent discourage turtle play and if in fact the vast majority of new players and a mix of experienced players are proponents of a range nerf then I don't see why not. I voted 'no' in the poll but now I wish I stayed neutral.

Baby steps. Why not give it a shot and see what happens.

Post by **Murto the Ray** » Mon May 09, 2016 2:05 pm

So, the current proposed change is range from 14 to 12. There are also other possible nerfs (accuracy, fire rate) that can be considered if people still think artillery are problematic. Such a small nerf shouldn't screw with balance too much and can easily be undone. everyone happy?

Frame_Limiter · Post by **Frame_Limiter** » Mon May 09, 2016 3:30 pm

For those interested in playtesting artillery with less range (14 - > 12), I've uploaded a few maps with this change:

Doubles:
http://resource.openra.net/maps/11785/

Tournament Island:
http://resource.openra.net/maps/11786/

Vegetation:
http://resource.openra.net/maps/11787/

--
If you want to playtest the other ideas instead (accuracy, ROF, ect.) I'd be happy to update the maps with these changes as well.

zinc · Post by **zinc** » Mon May 09, 2016 6:13 pm

Such a small change will not do anything to change the opinion of less experienced players: they will still think it's way overpowered because you will still be able to wreck them with it fast without them being able to do much to counter it.

It's possible that such a small-ish change could nevertheless improve game balance for experienced players... but are many experienced players claiming it's a problem in the first place?

Lets do something about artillery

Should arty be changed?