The (GDI) Watch Tower and (Nod) Turret

Reiper · Post by **Reiper** » Sun Mar 20, 2016 6:52 pm

Hi there, I am a new player to open RA, and so far I am absolutely loving it. The modern features in one of my favourite games is great, and I will definitely play this at the next LAN party!

There is one thing that is bugging me though, and that is the fact that GDI has access to the turret, and Nod has access to the guard tower. In my mind, these were always iconic units, and the asymmetrical defensive structures was something I liked about the original game

In my opinion, further homogenization of the factions should be kept to a minimum (as they already share several units), and I wouldn't mind seeing these two structures be made faction specific again.

I know this change was likely done with balance reasons in mind, but I feel balance could be achieved without sharing iconic units between factions. A symmetrical game is a balanced one, but it also has less identity!

If GDI has too much trouble with early vehicles, and Nod with infantry after such a change, perhaps it would be better to simply make the guard tower slightly better against vehicles, and the turret a little more accurate against infantry

anjew · Post by **anjew** » Mon Mar 21, 2016 6:34 am

It is interesting but i feel the factions equally require those buildings and after those defense structures it is certainly a case of asymmetrical structures (Obelisk+SAM vs AGT).

The turret and guard tower are very basic defense structures that are used for 2 different things. The problem with this is that the turret (in my opinion) is infinitely more useful late game than the guard tower. Guard tower only gets a resurgence in my late game to possibly defend from commandos. Also, I think restricting one tier 1 defense structure per faction would create imbalances between mirror match ups of factions, eg. an infantry style of play would be the best strategy with NoD vs NoD and an armour playstyle would be the best strategy for GDI vs GDI

Merging or adding additional stats (inaccuracy isn't the reason turrets do no damage unlike in CNC95, turrets actually cause very little damage to infantry) and giving turret to one and guard tower to the other would make these defense structures very overpowered as you could simply create a lot of those and attempt to turtle as they make short work of vehicles and infantry as opposed to alternating defense placements or spamming one kind and hoping for the best.

Like I said, interesting idea however in the current balance of the game, both factions need those tier 1 defense structures.

Post by **Sleipnir** » Mon Mar 21, 2016 7:55 am

One solution for the guard tower could be to set it up like the RA pillbox: the turret wouldn't be missed if you could swap the minigunner for a rocket trooper to turn it into an anti-vehicle defense.

AoAGeneral1 · Post by **AoAGeneral1** » Mon Mar 21, 2016 8:48 am

The pillbox idea for the GT might be good in certian scenarios. It however doesn't match the DPS the turret does.

Turrets currently shoot faster then E3 and do more damage in comparisons. Fitting an E3 inside a GT would actually be a nerf. Here is some of the calculations money wise:

GT 500
E3 300
---------
Total 800

Turret 600

While fitting E3 into the GT you would be needing additional income to fit these in. Which is already hard on GDI as it is due to their units already costing more. (Hummers at 400 compared to buggies at 300.)

In a GDI vs Nod scenario tanks can drive by GT rather easily and be unscathed by E3 filled towers. Compared to turrets that would take several quick pot shots at them before driving by or going around. One turret is enough to do serious damage while the E3 GT would require at least 3 towers to be effective. For GDI that is a lot of money just for defense.

Post by **Sleipnir** » Mon Mar 21, 2016 11:56 am

The garrisoned weapon is defined on a separate armament to the regular weapon, so the garrisoned missiles could be balanced independently to the regular missile if you wanted to put the time into fleshing out the idea. You'd need to be careful to not obsolete the advanced guard tower in the process, though.

anjew · Post by **anjew** » Mon Mar 21, 2016 12:49 pm

That would nice but now we have to think of someway to make the turret more effective against infantry

possibly one hit them like in the original but take longer to fire or something

AoAGeneral1 · Post by **AoAGeneral1** » Mon Mar 21, 2016 5:55 pm

I think this is an idea that can be played around with. There are some strengths to this for GDI that can be done but careful enough not to make to strong. Currently GT are to strong vs heavy type caliburs due to them carrying wood armor. Might be best to wait on this until an adaptable armor comes out to replace the GT to balance vs these types. (IE: Gun turrets have issues killing GT towers. So sticking E3 inside a GT would be to OP at the current state.)

However, I don't think the idea should be abandoned. It would allow GDI to be more adaptable while Nod is more mobile.

Going to ask around and make a post about this in the balance thread in the near future. As well as bring the idea to the devs and see what they think on it.

For the turret vs infantry that will be the hardest thing to balance. In C&C95 all calibur shots had a % chance to miss but if they landed on their target did intense damage (Nearly one shotting infantry).