Lets discuss Shock Troopers (Red Alert)

A discussion of thoughts and feelings about shock trooper

Discussion about the game and its default mods.
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Do you think shock troopers should be nerfed?

Yes
23
66%
No
12
34%
 
Total votes: 35

zinc
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Post by zinc »

What is the attack difference between shock troopers now and shock troopers before the improvement?

Scott_NZ
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Post by Scott_NZ »

The shroud reveal range was increased from 4 cells to 5 cells, and the weapon range was increased from 3.5 cells to 6 cells.

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SoScared
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Post by SoScared »

Prince Blueblood wrote:
r34ch wrote:
You guys bring a lot of great points on AA MiGs and I'm sort of reconsidering. Come to think of it, duels between MiG's and Longbows would be interesting and fun given the MiG's greater speed and Longbows' superb unit control. At equal numbers Longbows would certainly beat MiGs by simple maneuvers, however, my gut tells me that in this scenario, MiG's would have to be slightly more costly/longer producing in order to allow Allies retain their initial air dominance and promote the MiG as a tactical strike unit.

On a side noite, the Transport Helicopter (Chinook) has a sight range of 12, same as the Longbow. This doesn't make sense to me as IMO you either should know the terrain you want to sneak/rush or have scouted beforehand. I'd love to see it set at, say, 8, no more than 9. Just because a great sight range is convenient doesn't make it a good property.

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Prince Blueblood
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Post by Prince Blueblood »

now you bring it up, especially in naval maps like bombardment Islands, Soviet's lack of Air Transport definitely shown as their weakest point for capturing the oil derricks.

This makes Soviet-Soviet-Soviet team as totally unviable for winning in naval maps with derricks in the islands, especially because they can be infantry rushed by airdrops...

Yeah, I knew that Amphibious transports is there, but :
1) They actually has LESS capacity than chinnok (although could transport tanks)
2) They are vulnerable to allied surface fleet, while Allied Chinooks is practically untouchable at sea.

Who brings yet another question of Why Soviet do not have air-to-air unit at all?
OpenRA Nicks :
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My Ping might be Red... blame distance and my shitty connection due to which country I lived in...

zinc
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Post by zinc »

Scott_NZ wrote: The shroud reveal range was increased from 4 cells to 5 cells, and the weapon range was increased from 3.5 cells to 6 cells.

I'm guessing the amount of damage done was also increased?

zinc
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Post by zinc »

Prince Blueblood wrote: now you bring it up, especially in naval maps like bombardment Islands, Soviet's lack of Air Transport definitely shown as their weakest point for capturing the oil derricks.
But:

Soviets have stronger naval early on.

They can also use the flak truck to defend small islands. Or even mammoths. That gives AA ability.
Yeah, I knew that Amphibious transports is there, but :
1) They actually has LESS capacity than chinnok (although could transport tanks)
Well with APC included they can carry more troops presumably.
2) They are vulnerable to allied surface fleet, while Allied Chinooks is practically untouchable at sea.
Flak trucks on islands could take them down.

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Prince Blueblood
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Post by Prince Blueblood »

Uh, Flak Truck has default 6 sight range. Thats 4 less compared to Hind and with water barrier comfortably protect the Hinds from being chased off, they will destroy the guard trucks without fear of retaliation.

Soviets? Stronger Naval Early? All the Allies need is two well microed gunboats to destroy three submarines because Gunboat can and will try to manually outrun the Torpedoes because they will be microed this early in the game. While Submarines is micro intensive unit that cannot by default picking their own fights. Soviet Navy is a definite sitting duck against someone with equal micro skills using Allies. While even if you bad at Micro, Allied navy could be used as Brute Force means. Especially because no Allies will try to take the sea without a fuckton of hinds hovering safely on top of waters.

And if you count APC, you should count the additional $850 per APC. And you also lost them if your transport meet even one hind on the way at the water...
OpenRA Nicks :
- Everything with "Blueblood" inside
- Yuelang (when I speak Chinese, literally)

My Ping might be Red... blame distance and my shitty connection due to which country I lived in...

Scott_NZ
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Joined: Thu Sep 13, 2012 9:09 am

Post by Scott_NZ »

zinc wrote:
Scott_NZ wrote: The shroud reveal range was increased from 4 cells to 5 cells, and the weapon range was increased from 3.5 cells to 6 cells.

I'm guessing the amount of damage done was also increased?
Nope.

zinc
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Post by zinc »

Prince Blueblood wrote: Uh, Flak Truck has default 6 sight range. Thats 4 less compared to Hind and with water barrier comfortably protect the Hinds from being chased off, they will destroy the guard trucks without fear of retaliation.
Let's say you have 3 flak trucks on an island plus a few rockets troops.

You think that's easy for a couple of hinds? Or how many would be needed?

zinc
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Post by zinc »

Scott_NZ wrote:
zinc wrote:
Scott_NZ wrote: The shroud reveal range was increased from 4 cells to 5 cells, and the weapon range was increased from 3.5 cells to 6 cells.

I'm guessing the amount of damage done was also increased?
Nope.
Out of interest: What range does tanya have? What range does a pillbox have?

Certainly pillbox are pretty useless against them.
Last edited by zinc on Thu Aug 06, 2015 10:13 am, edited 1 time in total.

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Prince Blueblood
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Post by Prince Blueblood »

if the allies player has average micro, he'll only need two hinds to take those three flak trucks in short time, or even only one with trip back for reloading, Hind outrange flak truck ans do good damage against them, with water limiting the truck's mobility, its the flaks who are the sitting ducks.
OpenRA Nicks :
- Everything with "Blueblood" inside
- Yuelang (when I speak Chinese, literally)

My Ping might be Red... blame distance and my shitty connection due to which country I lived in...

zinc
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Post by zinc »

Prince Blueblood wrote: if the allies player has average micro, he'll only need two hinds to take those three flak trucks in short time, or even only one with trip back for reloading, Hind outrange flak truck ans do good damage against them, with water limiting the truck's mobility, its the flaks who are the sitting ducks.
Testing it wth force fire, the flak trucks start firing before the hinds.

Scott_NZ
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Post by Scott_NZ »

zinc wrote:
Scott_NZ wrote:
zinc wrote:
Scott_NZ wrote: The shroud reveal range was increased from 4 cells to 5 cells, and the weapon range was increased from 3.5 cells to 6 cells.

I'm guessing the amount of damage done was also increased?
Nope.
Out of interest: What range does tanya have? What range does a pillbox have?

Certainly pillbox are pretty useless against them.
Tanya's weapon range is 7 cells, pillbox is 6

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Prince Blueblood
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Post by Prince Blueblood »

force fire?

you somehow get a hind and flak and then tild them to fire on each others?

The fact in Real MP is not like that, you often did not seen the enemy hind, and isolated or hindered flak truck is easy prey for hind because they torn light armor with their chaingun while the heli in return could still tank the flak damage.

It's a proven fact again and again in MP games, large group of flak deter hind, but isolated group of them is easy prey.
OpenRA Nicks :
- Everything with "Blueblood" inside
- Yuelang (when I speak Chinese, literally)

My Ping might be Red... blame distance and my shitty connection due to which country I lived in...

newwe
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Post by newwe »

You can't get chinooks out fast enough for them to be a factor most of the time on bombardment islands.

And 3 flaks own 2 hinds. I just tested it 3 times trying to attack in different ways, twice 2 full health flaks survived, once 1 half health one survived. The hinds have better vision, but the flaks have better range, and are better at switching between targets. And this was in ideal conditions for the hinds. Oh, and hind cost =2700, flaks=1800. I should really build more flaks....

One final thing, 1v1 hinds will win but take a fair amount of damage (like 2/3 of their health gone approx). But if you haven't a-moved your hind or changed it stance, it will go down without a shot, the same which can't be said for flaks.

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