Ideas for better game balancing.

Discussion and feedback for Red Alert mod. Vox populi.

Discussion about the game and its default mods.
Christian
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Post by Christian » Wed May 13, 2015 3:50 am

Flak trucks certaintly don´t need another buff if anything I'd say they might even be a bit overpowered now they only cost 600. Overall it´s a way more useful unit than the light tank. I do however think that light tanks are a bit too expensive so decreasing the price from 700 to 600 would make sense.

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Prince Blueblood
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Post by Prince Blueblood » Wed May 13, 2015 6:20 am

christian wrote: Flak trucks certaintly don´t need another buff if anything I'd say they might even be a bit overpowered now they only cost 600. Overall it´s a way more useful unit than the light tank. I do however think that light tanks are a bit too expensive so decreasing the price from 700 to 600 would make sense.
True, they aren't useful in small numbers...

But their purposes is for bulking up numbers you should deal with small incursions as allies with Arty + Hind + Bazooka, but when it comes to your "tank column" medium tanks will provide firepower and light tank is very useful to provide crushing screen especially against rocket soldiers (counterintuitive I know, but arty is ultimately slow, and well microed small group of light tanks could be really devastating against infantry and other non medium tank non heavy tank non mammoth vehicles)
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hotze
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Post by hotze » Wed May 13, 2015 6:57 am

Hijackers should only get a speed bonus and the ability to camo while standing still. Being uncrushable would be too much.
Cost should be 650-700. More than that and there's no point in using them against most units and wasting the resources and time to micro them.

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JOo
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Post by JOo » Wed May 13, 2015 9:19 am

r34ch wrote: In this respect, I think Tiberian Dawn has pretty much nailed it.
i dont think you could compare red alert with tiberian dawn ...
red alert has on peak hours 30-50 players ... while tiberian dawn has 3-5 ...

so your idea of TD of being "balanced" probably makes the lack of players complaining

and red alert also has more factions and way more units to consider (from several add-ons) + water-area

Murto the Ray
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Post by Murto the Ray » Wed May 13, 2015 10:21 am

christian wrote: Flak trucks certaintly don´t need another buff if anything I'd say they might even be a bit overpowered now they only cost 600. Overall it´s a way more useful unit than the light tank. I do however think that light tanks are a bit too expensive so decreasing the price from 700 to 600 would make sense.
I would say that the flak truck is probably the best balanced unit in the game

PersianImmortal
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Post by PersianImmortal » Wed May 13, 2015 12:06 pm

raymundo wrote:
Don't make me have a flak attack! One of my favorite units!
I'm just saying I'd have no problem trading them for air to air migs. Maybe we can make a soviet faction that trades the flak truck for them. So you can keep your flak truck and flak attacks lol.

epice
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Post by epice » Wed May 13, 2015 2:54 pm

I think the light tank needs a buff, or more a change.

Instead of its pathetic cannon give it a heavy caliber machine gun so its good vs infantry.

Christian
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Post by Christian » Wed May 13, 2015 3:03 pm

^ I don't think that's a good idea it shouldn't be an anti infantry unit. But as I said earlier I think it would make sense to make it cheaper so reducing the price from 700 to 600 or so might help making them a bit more useful.

epice
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Post by epice » Wed May 13, 2015 3:34 pm

christian wrote: ^ I don't think that's a good idea it shouldn't be an anti infantry unit. But as I said earlier I think it would make sense to make it cheaper so reducing the price from 700 to 600 or so might help making them a bit more useful.
It still takes like 10 of them to equal one medium tank so still useless and overpriced.

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raymundo
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Post by raymundo » Wed May 13, 2015 4:32 pm

The light tank can cause trouble if sent out early in the game as a rush unit. This may be considered a cheap tactic but by sending it onto an opponents ore refinery you can stop them from gaining money for quite some time as the husk will block it.
It also has decent speed and can be used to crush infantry, especially when in bigger numbers. Because it becomes pointless late game what if the tech center further reduced its build time so they could be used for more spammy tactics, overwhelming enemy or crushing infantry. The price reduction to 600 would match the flaks price which seems to make sense.

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JOo
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Post by JOo » Thu May 14, 2015 9:23 am

raymundo wrote: The light tank can cause trouble if sent out early in the game as a rush unit. This may be considered a cheap tactic but by sending it onto an opponents ore refinery you can stop them from gaining money for quite some time as the husk will block it.
this is a questionable tactic ...

im known to be one of the people , using this strategy , even in tournys ... and that was the point when devs decidet to make husks destroyable ...

the problem is , although you can destroy husks in front of warfactorys , you cant destroy them on a refinery-patch ... so your enemy has to wait until husks disapears ...

theres various stuff we can do , to prevent this ... but there is also people (devs) that actually like the idea of light-tank being able to do all that stuff ...

its basicly the same like the flamethrower tactic ...

everyone knows it "is" possible to defend a flamethrower-tactic .... and everyone knows , its a lame "noob" tactic ...

but the same goes for the light tank ... its a noob tactic , but you can defend it when you put enough rocket troopers out ... or a single tesla could do

@PersianImmortal : would be nice to hear your statement about this ...

zinc
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Post by zinc » Thu May 14, 2015 9:48 am

With regard to Soviets having no air defence at sea...

Yes, but then allies have no vehicles than can do anti-air.

With subs, they only need defence from air when they fire anyway. And you have iron curtain which can be used on subs. Or you can iron curtain a transport with a demo truck in it, and take out a load of helis and ground units that way.

zinc
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Post by zinc » Thu May 14, 2015 9:56 am

JOo wrote: its basicly the same like the flamethrower tactic ...

everyone knows it "is" possible to defend a flamethrower-tactic .... and everyone knows , its a lame "noob" tactic ...
I think it will normally fail against an experienced player if you just try to rush attack an MCV early game.

I don't have a problem with people using them however. You just need to be a little creative and pick when to use them. Like if you can transport some around the back of a base.
but the same goes for the light tank ... its a noob tactic , but you can defend it when you put enough rocket troopers out ... or a single tesla could do
That tactic should be eliminated from the game if at all possible imo.

PersianImmortal
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Post by PersianImmortal » Thu May 14, 2015 12:07 pm

JOo wrote:
raymundo wrote: The light tank can cause trouble if sent out early in the game as a rush unit. This may be considered a cheap tactic but by sending it onto an opponents ore refinery you can stop them from gaining money for quite some time as the husk will block it.
this is a questionable tactic ...

im known to be one of the people , using this strategy , even in tournys ... and that was the point when devs decidet to make husks destroyable ...

the problem is , although you can destroy husks in front of warfactorys , you cant destroy them on a refinery-patch ... so your enemy has to wait until husks disapears ...

theres various stuff we can do , to prevent this ... but there is also people (devs) that actually like the idea of light-tank being able to do all that stuff ...

its basicly the same like the flamethrower tactic ...

everyone knows it "is" possible to defend a flamethrower-tactic .... and everyone knows , its a lame "noob" tactic ...

but the same goes for the light tank ... its a noob tactic , but you can defend it when you put enough rocket troopers out ... or a single tesla could do

@PersianImmortal : would be nice to hear your statement about this ...
Here's my take on it. The strategy is ok. It adds some diversity to the early game and let's allies have something they can actually do early game to harass the enemy. The problem that I have with it is the refinery glitch. If you park it in front of a war factory or block an ore field with a few of them the husks can be targeted and destroyed. When it's in a refinery you can't and you lose something like 45 seconds of build time. The husk needs to be targetable in the refinery.

There's always the argument that you can prevent it from even getting into the refinery. However your options are costly and inconsistent at best. I put two turrets near my refine and the enemy can just send 2 LTs one to soak up shots and the other to get in the refine. The same goes if i drop a tesla etc. I build a squad of rocket soldiers and the same thing send in 2-3 and one will make it which would be fine if the husk can be destroyed.

newwe
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Post by newwe » Thu May 14, 2015 1:33 pm

PersianImmortal wrote:
JOo wrote:
raymundo wrote: The light tank can cause trouble if sent out early in the game as a rush unit. This may be considered a cheap tactic but by sending it onto an opponents ore refinery you can stop them from gaining money for quite some time as the husk will block it.
this is a questionable tactic ...

im known to be one of the people , using this strategy , even in tournys ... and that was the point when devs decidet to make husks destroyable ...

the problem is , although you can destroy husks in front of warfactorys , you cant destroy them on a refinery-patch ... so your enemy has to wait until husks disapears ...

theres various stuff we can do , to prevent this ... but there is also people (devs) that actually like the idea of light-tank being able to do all that stuff ...

its basicly the same like the flamethrower tactic ...

everyone knows it "is" possible to defend a flamethrower-tactic .... and everyone knows , its a lame "noob" tactic ...

but the same goes for the light tank ... its a noob tactic , but you can defend it when you put enough rocket troopers out ... or a single tesla could do

@PersianImmortal : would be nice to hear your statement about this ...
Here's my take on it. The strategy is ok. It adds some diversity to the early game and let's allies have something they can actually do early game to harass the enemy. The problem that I have with it is the refinery glitch. If you park it in front of a war factory or block an ore field with a few of them the husks can be targeted and destroyed. When it's in a refinery you can't and you lose something like 45 seconds of build time. The husk needs to be targetable in the refinery.

There's always the argument that you can prevent it from even getting into the refinery. However your options are costly and inconsistent at best. I put two turrets near my refine and the enemy can just send 2 LTs one to soak up shots and the other to get in the refine. The same goes if i drop a tesla etc. I build a squad of rocket soldiers and the same thing send in 2-3 and one will make it which would be fine if the husk can be destroyed.
Is it really that amazing of a strat? It costs you 700/tank, requires some micro, sometimes doesn't work b/c the harvesters block the ref themselves, and you lose harvester building time. If your opponent has 2 refs it has very little effect.

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