Trying to decide whether to Uninstall this... balance issues

[RealAlert]

Hello, new here. I played this game a lot back in the day, still have the original discs but very glad to have this new, much easier method to play this game. Thanks a ton to the developers for all their efforts.

So mostly, for this game and for all the old games I still play, I like to play against the computer. I'm not the best player around, but it's fun to try and face 2-3 comps alone and that's what I enjoy.

So the other night, I played allies against 3 soviet RushAI's on a medium sized map. Very difficult battle but I won. Tonight, I played Soviets against 3 Allied AI's and lost miserably. I couldn't even leave my base. I tried it against 2 Allied AI's, absolutely still got stomped even though I lasted a bit longer. The cause of my loss on both accounts? Artillery.

Now I'm a big fan of some of the changes in this game, even though I do wish there was the ability to play with the original units and stats. But these artillery being able to shoot clear across the map is insane. Your tanks and other units go head to head while artillery pounds you from the back, shredding your infantry and even your V2 units which they outrange. You can't touch them with aircraft because the Allies will send a dozen or so rocket troops with them. And if you lose all your units, or have to send them off to some other front, the artillery pounds your tesla coils and towers and there is nothing you can do about it.

If memory serves, in the original game Artillery had less range than V2, but they were cheaper, and fired faster. They were very useful, but a V2 could out-damage and out-range them and was thus an effective counter. I feel this was a good tradeoff, not sure why the need was felt to make them better in every way than a V2.

I love playing Allies and Soviets equally, but I'm on the verge of uninstalling this game because of this issue alone. It's simply not fun to play against a team with such an overpowered unit. Now I don't really want to hear about different tactics, or that I should "get good." I simply want to ask, is there any chance of this unit being fixed, or should I throw in the towel and uninstall?

[Scott_NZ]

Some thoughts:

• You are not losing to artillery alone, but a combination of units which synergise really well together, but with the catch that this force is very expensive to buy.
• Artillery is inferior to V2s in manoeuvrability, speed, burst damage and health (100 HP vs 200 HP), which makes V2 much better for hit-and-run attacks than Artillery, and worse for sitting back and trading shots.
• Your base building and ore collection effectiveness also come into the equation, and can make or break games.
• The AI code is finicky, and it's understandable that it plays Allies better than it does Soviets (which is a bit more micro-intensive in general). It doesn't know how to use V2s properly, or kill things in yaks and fly away without getting them shot down, and so on.

[scorp]

This has been discussed a few times lately. There appears to be a group that insists on this balancing decision and there seem to be a few guys that don't like it.

Now, when you write you play against AI (and if you don't plan to play online against competetive players) then nothing stops you from tinkering with the balance in the yaml files yourself for your own personal game.

I think it's not just soviet side being more micromanagement-heavy, making it difficult for the AI to play soviet, it's also that, in my view, Allies seem a bit one-sided. To make gameplay against Allies AI an interesting game, use maps that are large enough for some tactics, ideally with sea access so that allied AI may build ships. Maybe use the Naval AI so they'll use choppers, too. And yeah, if gameplay is still lacking, apply some balancing to Arties, Tanks and the AI you're using. Allies currently lack a good alternative as main damage output unit in land battles compared to the arty. You may decide to buff their tanks and have the AI produce more of them (but less Arty) for example.

If that doesn't fix general gameplay for the factions, you may also resort to more advanced changes. For example i switched the Mi-24 Hind back to soviet side in my game because WTF a Mi-24 hind on allied side?? The hind is more manouverable than the Yak and is an acceptable counter to Arties. Of course that leaves a hole in the Allied Aircraft Arsenal that needs to be accounted for... once you open that box, balancing becomes and endless Story

[Murto the Ray]

So the other night, I played allies against 3 soviet RushAI's on a medium sized map. Very difficult battle but I won. Tonight, I played Soviets against 3 Allied AI's and lost miserably. I couldn't even leave my base. I tried it against 2 Allied AI's, absolutely still got stomped even though I lasted a bit longer. The cause of my loss on both accounts? Artillery.

Artillery are the bane of every soviet player; they are cheap and powerful and form the backbone of most alliied armies.

I used to be an allies player and used artillery to a large extent - why? Because they are so cheap and can destroy tanks, infantry, navy - pretty much everything but aircraft. They are massively overpowered and in my opinion ruin a lot of possible small battles that could be had between soviet and allied players if they weren't as OP. The only strategies you can really employ as a soviet player is to suicide yaks, basewalk into them or make such a large wave of mammoth tanks that they completely wipe out any existence of life where the enemies base used to be.

Prime example (replay): https://www.dropbox.com/s/cbx81uovdwn1x ... rarep?dl=0

But at the same time they are necessary, many people online coat their bases in defences so there is a need for a unit that can surpass that. In my opinion, however, artillery seems a little bit too easy to get. Nerfing it has been discussed before and it didn't get great feedback so, for now, you may just have to find ways around it.

[kyrylo]

In my humble opinion, it's not arty that is OP. It's the combination of arty and basewalking. It's nearly impossible to defend against a good player who basewalks and backs it up with a bunch of artillery, which is constantly shelling your positions.

For example, if it's 2v2 or 3v3, then 2 players can cooperate. One builds arties and basewalks, the other one is focused on basewalking only, building defenses. You cannot do anything except trying to flank them, if the map allows that. But still, it won't help, because you must defend your base or otherwise it will be destroyed in the twinkling of an eye.

I would love to see (and I reckon it's a must) a tile that allows moving, but blocks building. An example of this would be StarCraft. In this game many maps forbid building in the center of the map. So in order to attack, you'd have to move your army, not your base. A moving arty is very vulnerable.

[r34ch]

I have the exact same issue, but online. I even have my own rant thread.

I still think something about the allied basewalking arty strat is unbalanced. Hinds are a little too good against all early soviet units, artys are a little too good against anything that isn't fast and yaks are a little too fragile with a crap anti inf weapon to boot.

As allies I just waypoint my BAR, WF and HELI and focus on macro. Added all together and it makes early soviets really hard to play on quite a fair amount of maps.


But if you rage quit at this strat, just wait until you play naval maps against good allied players :3
hint: Soviets don't have naval AA units...

[zinc]

I like to play against the computer. I'm not the best player around, but it's fun to try and face 2-3 comps alone and that's what I enjoy.

If that's what you enjoy then this is no problem at all. Just keep playing. You don't even need to "get good". You just need to get slightly better. The AI doesn't know how to protect the artie and you should soon enough find that it isn't a problem.

[zinc]

I would love to see (and I reckon it's a must) a tile that allows moving, but blocks building.

We already have that with debris?

I don't know if that slows down troop movements but certainly it stops building.

[kyrylo]

I would love to see (and I reckon it's a must) a tile that allows moving, but blocks building.

We already have that with debris?

I don't know if that slows down troop movements but certainly it stops building.

I know at least one tile that blocks building, but allows movement. However, it also slows down some units like MCV's and harvesters. From the aesthetic point of view it's really bad when you have only one tile. Also, if we already have that, it doesn't mean that it's sufficient. None of the default maps use them to block basewalking.

[r34ch]

imho soviets can base walk and its not an issue so I don't think that is the root cause.

[zinc]

However, it also slows down some units like MCV's and harvesters.

OK that could be a problem.

From the aesthetic point of view it's really bad when you have only one tile.

If you look at the map editor there are various types of debris.

[RealAlert]

Alright wow, tons of replies and I haven't been flamed or called a noob. That's very surprising and nice.

I'm pretty sure I would get destroyed online, and I don't have that competitive drive, nor the time, to do anything about this. Would just love to continue to play comps, and do fairly well with Soviets and Allies and switch frequently.

I wasn't aware I could edit the actual game files. Honestly, having the AI build a few Arties isn't a big deal, but when they come with 4-5 it's a pretty big burden, especially with multiple comps doing this. I agree they need to be able to out-range base defenses, as does the V2, but they are simply to easy to mass and too effective against ground units. I think I could settle on reducing their rate of fire to match the V2 and increasing the price a bit. Also, maybe I need to mix up the AI types a bit. I always play RushAI, maybe I shouldn't be trying to take on 3 of those. Haven't really tried the others much honestly.

[scorp]

The OpenRA devs gave you indeed quite a few options that you can use. Editing the game files is one way, but there's also a few ingame options.


For example if you take on a few rush-AI opponents, you might consider teaming up with a turtle or naval AI to have some more free defenses on your side. Sure, that would work only on a few maps where the spawns are in the right places. And the AI, being what it is, you newer know if it is of any use...

[YuriMolina]

I got a worst problem than the balance, my openra is flickering and blinking while I am playing looks like a GTK problem XD

[ddd]

I got a worst problem than the balance, my openra is flickering and blinking while I am playing looks like a GTK problem XD

More like drivers problem.