TD balance thread

Discussion about the game and its default mods.
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WhoCares
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Post by WhoCares » Thu May 03, 2018 11:40 pm

reduce construction speed by half with 2 conyard, ... 2 build queue at half speed.3 build queue at 1/3 speed, ect :D

"7 min to build a ref because i have 4 conyard god damnit"

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AoAGeneral1
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Post by AoAGeneral1 » Sat May 05, 2018 10:29 pm

WhoCares wrote: reduce construction speed by half with 2 conyard, ... 2 build queue at half speed.3 build queue at 1/3 speed, ect :D

"7 min to build a ref because i have 4 conyard god damnit"
Wasn't this tested in RA? O.o lol

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AoAGeneral1
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Post by AoAGeneral1 » Mon May 07, 2018 7:20 pm

Test changes for future balance.

Apache damage vs infantry at prone increased from 50 percent to 70 percent.

MCV Price from 4000 to 3500.

Repair Pad decrease power from -30 to -20.

APC turn speed from 8 to 7.

APC build duration from 900 to 938.

APC AA range from 7 to 6.

APC reduce vision range from 7c0 to 6c0.

APC projectile speed reduced from 2c0 to 900.

Power Plant buff HP from 50,000 to 55,000

Change power structures (Airstrip/Factory and Refinery to 40 power)

A10 machine gun spread slightly reduced.

MRLS Price reduction from 1000 to 900.

Light vehicle husks HP reduce to 2000. (reduce timer on field wreckage.)

Oil Derrick reduce HP from 100,000 to 80,000

Change power plant build duration from 12 seconds to 8 seconds. (Low power build duration from 24 seconds to 16 seconds.) Note: Does not include Adv. Power plant

Change engineer capture threshold from 50 to 55.

-------------------

EDIT: Removed outdated maps. Please look for OaO maps.
Last edited by AoAGeneral1 on Tue May 15, 2018 1:25 am, edited 1 time in total.

maceman
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Post by maceman » Sun May 13, 2018 4:23 pm

AoAGeneral1 wrote:
This would be your best test https://resource.openra.net/maps/25979/

Its a near clone of CNC95 (Even unit stats). This will give an idea of some of the issues CNC95 faced when it had single queue systems. Bikes became incredibly strong and if you were lucky enough to tech with GDI then GDI steam rolls Nod. Mainly because a vehicle builds one at a time, and infantry applying the same as well.

It also can't be split. Either the game itself has single queues or multi queues.
I don't agree that mod map remotely represents anything related to changing to a single build queue. It was a mod map I was working on for fun which is much nearer to the original game. However I did not change the queue system for it. It uses the same queue system as the normal game.

As a suggestion, instead of playing that random mod map which will show nothing much, could a mod map be made which uses the release balance but with a 2k mcv and just one queue per production type? Also maybe it could be worth trying in a separate map still allowing multiple queues for units?

maceman
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Post by maceman » Sun May 13, 2018 8:40 pm

Due to the problems with APCs in the current release, for the final matches of TDGL we put the following balance tweaks in (Based on a balance patch by ZxGanon, Mesacer and anjew I think):

APC:
Cost increased from 550 to 650
Health decreased from 21500 to 19350
BuildDuration increased from 900 to 938
TurnSpeed decreased from 8 to 5
Bullet speed decreased from 1706 to 900
Range vs air decreased from 7c0 to 5c0

Seemed to work really well and produce varied games, where the APC was definitely still used.

I thought I'd mention this here as the changes you've put above don't nerf the APC as much, and might not be enough. Personally I would be more worried about under-nerfing this hugely overpowered unit than over-nerfing it.

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AoAGeneral1
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Post by AoAGeneral1 » Mon May 14, 2018 1:42 am

Add the map here

maceman
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Post by maceman » Mon May 14, 2018 8:24 am

Here's one:

https://resource.openra.net/maps/26669/

This was run over the entire map pool for the league though. If you search for "TDGL:S1:APC" on the resource centre though they'll all come up.

You can be sure it's the right one in-game because there is an APC on the map preview and the APC changes come up in the mission summary after selecting the map.

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AoAGeneral1
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Post by AoAGeneral1 » Mon May 14, 2018 10:49 am

Missing the other listed changes

maceman
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Post by maceman » Mon May 14, 2018 3:15 pm

Which changes do you mean? All of the APC changes were in those maps, no others changes.

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AoAGeneral1
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Post by AoAGeneral1 » Mon May 14, 2018 6:44 pm

The other listed changes such as the power changes need to be combined for effective testing.

maceman
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Post by maceman » Mon May 14, 2018 7:01 pm

Why? None of the other changes affect the way APCs interact with other units at all. They are just changes which relate to other parts of gameplay.

Either way, it's up to you. I'm kinda giving up now. APCs have been known to be broken since the TDGL league started in January. Endless working solutions have been put forward, only for a different untested and non-working "solution" to be put in.

This seems like a repeat of last time, where even though there is a proven solution, it doesn't get fully implemented for some contrived reason and the game remains broken.
Last edited by maceman on Tue May 15, 2018 8:33 am, edited 1 time in total.

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AoAGeneral1
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Post by AoAGeneral1 » Mon May 14, 2018 8:42 pm

Its been agreed to use the TDGL changes (except price) for testing purposes after debate.

The price affects a large pool of numbers in replays that I have seen that makes me unwilling to change the price to 650. For testing purposes however, I will revert the price to 600 (CNC95 price) for testing as it was originally this price some releases ago.

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AoAGeneral1
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Post by AoAGeneral1 » Tue May 15, 2018 1:29 am

Test changes for future balance.

Apache damage vs infantry at prone increased from 50 percent to 80 percent.

MCV Price from 4000 to 3500.

Repair Pad decrease power from -30 to -20.

APC Price from 550 to 600.

APC HP from 21500 to 19000.

APC turn speed from 8 to 5.

APC build duration from 900 to 938.

APC AA range from 7 to 5.

APC reduce vision range from 7c0 to 6c0.

APC projectile speed reduced from 2c0 to 900.

Power Plant buff HP from 50,000 to 55,000

Change power structures (Airstrip/Factory and Refinery to 40 power)

A10 machine gun spread slightly reduced.

MRLS Price reduction from 1000 to 900.

Light vehicle husks HP reduce to 2000. (reduce timer on field wreckage.)

Oil Derrick reduce HP from 100,000 to 80,000

Change power plant build duration from 12 seconds to 8 seconds. (Low power build duration from 24 seconds to 16 seconds.) Note: Does not include Adv. Power plant

Change engineer capture threshold from 50 to 55.

--------------

https://resource.openra.net/maps/27196/

https://resource.openra.net/maps/27195/

https://resource.openra.net/maps/27194/

https://resource.openra.net/maps/27193/

https://resource.openra.net/maps/27192/

https://resource.openra.net/maps/27191/

https://resource.openra.net/maps/27190/

https://resource.openra.net/maps/27189/

https://resource.openra.net/maps/27188/

https://resource.openra.net/maps/27187/

https://resource.openra.net/maps/27186/

https://resource.openra.net/maps/27185/

https://resource.openra.net/maps/27184/

https://resource.openra.net/maps/27183/

https://resource.openra.net/maps/27182/

https://resource.openra.net/maps/27181/

https://resource.openra.net/maps/27180/

https://resource.openra.net/maps/27179/

https://resource.openra.net/maps/27178/

https://resource.openra.net/maps/27177/

https://resource.openra.net/maps/27176/

maceman
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Post by maceman » Tue May 15, 2018 7:41 am

Awesome :) Hopefully the smaller price increase is enough.

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AoAGeneral1
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Post by AoAGeneral1 » Tue May 15, 2018 7:57 am

Also need to add a note here that there is a trait that will be tested upon playtest. Where the APC gets a slow down after it crushes infantry. Currently, its only in the bleed version and have played around with it. Originally the past edited changes were in align to those changes but there were some discussed theory issues that could crop up.

The best method here is to apply the changes and apply the crush trait on top of it and see how it performs in the playtest. Worst case scenario the unit either gets adjusted, crush trait gets an adjustment, or the crush trait is dropped completely.

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