TD balance thread

Discussion about the game and its default mods.
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AoAGeneral1
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Post by AoAGeneral1 » Sun Apr 01, 2018 7:07 am

The few games I had with Mesacer (SP) has been interesting but need more games over all. If anyone has had games with the mod maps provided send the replays in this forum or to me on Discord.

So far the only thing I can say is the light vehicle husks change (Which I think was introduced by Voidwalker) seems to be positive so that may end up in the future playtest.

Everything else is still speculative and need more games.

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ZxGanon
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Post by ZxGanon » Sun Apr 01, 2018 11:36 am

Sure why not gather people and we play as much as possible. Gather them as I do in SP.

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AoAGeneral1
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Post by AoAGeneral1 » Sun Apr 15, 2018 12:35 am

A few changes that currently look good to keep in:

Power changes on structures:

Refinery power reduced from 50 to 40.

Airstrip/War factory power reduced from 50 to 40.

This promotes some of the older build styles while still fixing the large quantity of factory builds. Been promising in the early games and late games.

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APC changes:

APC vision range from 7 to 6.

APC projectile speed reduced from 1c682 to 900.

APC HP reduced from 21500 to 19350.

-- The APC speed is under testing at this time. A trait was released in the bleed version thanks to GraionDilach. However, It hasn't been tested as of yet since im trying to understand how to setup it up in the code itself and how it works.

APC turn speed reduced from 8 to 7.

^^^ The speed change is ment to help issues vs bikes and tanks to keep from running easily.

APC AA Gun range reduced from 7 to 6.

^^^ The original setting for this was reduced from 7 to 5. It hasn't been tested enough vs aircraft since the APC nerf so reducing by a smaller number is the safest route until further testing.

- - Notes: The APC price will remain unchanged at 550.

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MCV Price changed from 4000$ to 3500$.

- - Notes: The MCV price has been tested to be effective still at 3500$ in 1v1 games. Players who have gone with the early investment fall behind in unit assets.

I am currently keeping this at 3500$ due to the lack of team game testing. Since getting extra MCVs out tends to be easier to bring out during team games it needs testing before a further price drop can be done.

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Repair pad power reduced from -30 to -20.

- - Notes: The repair pad is not going to receive a heal rate buff. Main reason being that buggies and bikes repair much to fast to be used. (This also includes Humvees and APCs.). A better idea for repair rate is to used a HP % type repair rate so it is level across all unit types rather then a strange spike in quick healing with lighter units.

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light vehicle husks will be receiving their nerf only appearing on the battlefield for roughly two seconds.

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Oil Derrick will receive a HP nerf but it is still being determined by how much.

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Apache will receive a buff vs infantry. They will do extra damage vs prone. By how much damage is still being tested.

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MRLS price reduced from 1000$ to 900$

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Power plant HP increased from 60000 to 65000.

Power Plant low power build duration decreased. (Still determining a set number)

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-+ The following is currently not being changed due to lack of testing.



Defensive structures will not be receiving their changes due to lack of focused testing.

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Commando will not receive a price change due to lack of focused testing.

-=-=-=-

Once the trait for APC crushing is figured out will roll out a finalized map testing with the changes mentioned above. If anyone else wishes to roll out the changes mentioned above may also do so.

If there are any questions or additional changes liked to be seen let me know on Discord.
Last edited by AoAGeneral1 on Mon Apr 16, 2018 8:52 am, edited 2 times in total.

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anjew
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Post by anjew » Sun Apr 15, 2018 4:20 am

AoAGeneral1 wrote: Husks will be receiving their nerf only appearing on the battlefield for roughly two seconds.
I presume this is light vehicle husks not all :D
Image

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AoAGeneral1
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Post by AoAGeneral1 » Mon Apr 16, 2018 5:36 am

That is correct light vehicle husks -_- my bad

Also, managed to get the crushing trait working with APCs (Thanks abcdefg30! :D ). However, they are unable to be tested in the release version as its only available in the bleed version. Gonna work on some possible tests conclusions for it and I think Mesacer mentioned something.

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AoAGeneral1
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Post by AoAGeneral1 » Thu Apr 26, 2018 10:44 pm

I have uploaded a few maps with the following changes:

Test changes for future balance.

Apache damage vs infantry at prone increased from 50 percent to 80 percent.

MCV Price from 4000 to 3500.

Repair Pad decrease power from -30 to -20.

APC turn speed from 8 to 7.

APC build duration from 900 to 938.

APC AA range from 7 to 6.

APC reduce vision range from 7c0 to 6c0.

APC projectile speed reduced from 2c0 to 900.

Power Plant buff HP from 50,000 to 55,000

Change power structures (Airstrip/Factory and Refinery to 40 power)

A10 machine gun spread slightly reduced.

MRLS Price reduction from 1000 to 900.

Light vehicle husks HP reduce to 2000. (reduce timer on field wreckage.)

Oil Derrick reduce HP from 100,000 to 80,000

Change power plant build duration from 12 seconds to 8 seconds. (Low power build duration from 24 seconds to 16 seconds.) Note: Does not include Adv. Power plant

Change engineer capture threshold from 50 to 55.

------------------------

If you wish to upload additional maps with these changes feel free to do so. Any other questions feel free as well!

Note:

I noticed Psydev has been updating several of his old maps and other old maps as well so the added changes are on his updated map types.

https://resource.openra.net/maps/26904/

https://resource.openra.net/maps/26903/

https://resource.openra.net/maps/26902/

https://resource.openra.net/maps/26901/

EDIT: Added two more maps for 1v1

https://resource.openra.net/maps/26935/

https://resource.openra.net/maps/26934/
Last edited by AoAGeneral1 on Fri Apr 27, 2018 9:10 pm, edited 3 times in total.

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netnazgul
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Post by netnazgul » Fri Apr 27, 2018 6:24 am

Minor technical bragging that can save some sanity.
Please use the same direction (from/to) in all lines so that a person skimming through the list will uniquely interpret them just by numbers.
The latest post is mostly ok apart from
Power Plant buff HP 55,000 from 50,000
which is "To Y from X", whereas other values are "From X to Y". More of this here: https://resource.openra.net/maps/26904/

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AoAGeneral1
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Post by AoAGeneral1 » Fri Apr 27, 2018 8:35 am

Yea ongoing problem. I always did changes backwards but had people prefer to have it worded differently. So my brain will sometimes refer to the method I understand and without realizing it compared to what others read so I miss it sometimes. Its why the poat had an edit already

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ZxGanon
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Post by ZxGanon » Mon Apr 30, 2018 9:03 am

Most changes are either ripped of in the wrong way from our balance map or not even properly taken over.

Boring try to change the meta with some small changes wont do anything to rescue TD.

If Im ever gonna play TD again Im gonna play it on Mesacers map.

Your modmaps are boring AoA and lead into more one base centered gameplay.

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AoAGeneral1
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Post by AoAGeneral1 » Mon Apr 30, 2018 5:06 pm

ZxGanon wrote: Most changes are either ripped of in the wrong way from our balance map or not even properly taken over.

Boring try to change the meta with some small changes wont do anything to rescue TD.

If Im ever gonna play TD again Im gonna play it on Mesacers map.

Your modmaps are boring AoA and lead into more one base centered gameplay.
All im seeing is tears right now.

1) You need to play the maps before you can criticize them. Your just being ignorant otherwise.

2) Your commenting on something you have no idea about nor even tested. Making assumptions is not a meta thinking style.

3) The changes you invoke fits a RA playstyle that im not willing to change.

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ZxGanon
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Post by ZxGanon » Mon Apr 30, 2018 9:46 pm

AoAGeneral1 wrote:
ZxGanon wrote: Most changes are either ripped of in the wrong way from our balance map or not even properly taken over.

Boring try to change the meta with some small changes wont do anything to rescue TD.

If Im ever gonna play TD again Im gonna play it on Mesacers map.

Your modmaps are boring AoA and lead into more one base centered gameplay.
All im seeing is tears right now.

1) You need to play the maps before you can criticize them. Your just being ignorant otherwise.

2) Your commenting on something you have no idea about nor even tested. Making assumptions is not a meta thinking style.

3) The changes you invoke fits a RA playstyle that im not willing to change.
The only one having a monologue is you again.

1) I played the maps and they are just cheap ripp offs of what Mesacer, Anjew, Vodwalker and I did.

2) Assumptions might not be healthy but TD needs mor than just a small pinch to get revived.

3) Not everything that is beyond one base gameplay is RA style.

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WhoCares
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Post by WhoCares » Mon Apr 30, 2018 10:24 pm

If you want a different gameplay there is an option : cheaper mcv but no possibility to undeploy, means you can expand at lower cost but can't run away if things aren't going your way. OFC it's just a suggestion that induce a specific gameplay.

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AoAGeneral1
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Post by AoAGeneral1 » Tue May 01, 2018 6:46 am

1) They are not rip offs. It is called contributions. If a map is made carrying over those ideas and stats, then that is not a rip off but used feedback for testing. (Which you have not tested)

3) It is not one base gameplay due to the cheaper MCVs as suggested before. (Yet again, which you have not tested.)

@WhoCares:

Can result into the same issue as before which is multiple queues building up AGT towers and creating a wall perimeter. (More so in team games) This would recreate that problem despite an MCV being unable to move.

SirCake
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Post by SirCake » Tue May 01, 2018 9:26 am

Lol in RA every balance map author is happy if 10% of his change makes it into the release, and here in TD people are outraged if their changes get adapted??
*facepalm*

Check out Dune2k-Advanced on my moddb page!

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Materianer
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Post by Materianer » Tue May 01, 2018 10:31 am

SirCake wrote: Lol in RA every balance map author is happy if 10% of his change makes it into the release, and here in TD people are outraged if their changes get adapted??
*facepalm*
On true ...
You better work together and test maps unbiased @ZxGanon

Regarding the mcv why not decrease it a bit more to 3k or so.

I remember the time when it was on 2k of course some players spammed them in a excessive way but that playstyle was weaker in contrast to someone who builded only 1 or 2.
I was discussing with my brother about mcv's at that time and we both concluded that evreything more than 1 extra mcv is a high risk.
That was a big difference to ra where mcv spam was a much stronger tactic, i think because the ra defenses are just stronger.

It was a big surprise for us when the price was just doubled then because that nearly took away the option to expand and restricted the game.
However the change where decided by a part of the small but active td community at that time.
After the change was done td was kinda ruined for us we kept playing it for a while but most of the fun was gone. That just shortened the game and the lobbytime was like 3 times longer than gametime then.

Thats why i say decreasing the price is good but 3500$ is still too much.

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