TD balance thread

Discussion about the game and its default mods.
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AoAGeneral1
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Post by AoAGeneral1 » Fri Sep 29, 2017 11:41 pm

The Guard Towers doing damage to turrets is a known issue. Mainly gun turrets do very little damage to structures in comparison. (This also includes AGT).

After the release it will be one of the things that is going to have a fix using GraionDilach's method.

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AoAGeneral1
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Post by AoAGeneral1 » Thu Oct 26, 2017 6:56 pm

New release is now out. Grab it and post any issues you find in TD!

I have a small list of ideas to work on in the future. (One example is splitting Guard Towers to GDI only and Gun Turrets to Nod only.)

The GT and Turrets will no doubt be the hardest to balance and get right. But it can work for GDI and Nod if done right. GDI allowing some adaptable defenses and Nod for stronger infantry plays.

The main concern is balancing Gun Turrets for anti infantry situations.

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Starting October 29th I will be disappearing for a little bit until around Mid November. (14th-ish) going on vacation. I will still be around to do games and browse the forums but balance testing will be pretty much halted until im back.

If you can, spend some time to post some other issues or ideas you have here for TD.

Few topics worth discussing to get the ball rolling:

Engineers.

Gun Turret and Guard Tower faction specific.

MCV price and build time.

Infantry.

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anjew
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Post by anjew » Fri Oct 27, 2017 7:21 am

AoAGeneral1 wrote: MCV price and build time.
A lot of people complain about this but a lot of those people weren't around when it was cheaper. I'm not completely against a price reduction, just needs to be observed.

AoAGeneral1 wrote: Infantry.
Infantry suck. No two ways about it. Airstrikes and crushes are their biggest enemies and I feel the only way to fix it is https://github.com/OpenRA/OpenRA/issues/11409
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AoAGeneral1
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Post by AoAGeneral1 » Fri Oct 27, 2017 10:36 am

Agreed on the MCV. Im thinking of leaving the build time as is but reduce price from 4000 to 3800. A smaller number but might help for multiple queues.

Currently I do see additional MCVs being built in team games so wanted to see some opinions on it.

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The infantry has their uses still at least but that crushing mechanic ticket would be very nice to have. As for Airstrikes, the only fix that can be done for this is to have directional control strikes rather then randomly appearing strikes. Would fix the instant appearing and killing.

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ZxGanon
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Post by ZxGanon » Fri Oct 27, 2017 4:38 pm

I would be down for 3600$ on the MCV.

For the terms of infantry I feel like it is in a good spot. Of course crushing is strong but I wouldn´t go any further because infantry in TD is quite strong.

You know my opinion about the Engineer. I´d like the modern captureway like in Kanes wrath and RA3 but without stoping the production of the bulding that is getting captured (but thats not possible because of ora).

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AoAGeneral1
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Post by AoAGeneral1 » Sun Oct 29, 2017 7:52 pm

I know originally I said I would adjust the MCV price to 3600 but started seeing players making them in team games when they were still 4000. Im very skeptical and alert of the issues that can be caused if mass MCV plays come in.

Myself being paranoid and taking into account of what was said before im tempted to do a 3700 adjustment. (:P No I won't do 3750 cause that is just silly lol)

--The engineers.--

Yea they have been brought up a lot. Taking into accounts of what people said I get the feeling the strong dislike is the locked buildings. However, this is the strength of the engineer and important of defense structures and units. I also however, do prefer if structures can still produce units while it is being externally captured. But currently its all or nothing in the development plan and the devs have been busy so I respect that regard.

The main focal point reasoning for this change is some players reporting that its tough to catch engineers since there is no "warning" for them as they walk into the base. With the hit-shapes they are now even more powerful. Near instant captures in a sense specially if you shoot at one corner of the structure and run engineers into another. Smaller details:

- Engineers enter in through hit shapes.

- Units can fire at a corner, engineers walk into another negating the 50% damage requirement.

- No warning when an engineer captures.

Some of the proposed changes for external engineers will help the new players while keeping them on a dangerous competitive scene.

- External Engineers have a 5 second capture time.

- Still get consumed.

- A warning is able to be said by EVA - "Base under attack!" Which allows you to hit space bar to center screen on said engineer capturing.

- Allows 5 seconds for the engineer to be sniped.

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Sleipnir
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Post by Sleipnir » Sun Oct 29, 2017 8:08 pm

AoAGeneral1 wrote: I also however, do prefer if structures can still produce units while it is being externally captured. But currently its all or nothing in the development plan and the devs have been busy so I respect that regard.
Actually, the development plan is to replace the hardcoded locking behaviour with conditions and trait pausing so that mods can customize this kind of behaviour. Production is tracked by #14177.

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AoAGeneral1
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Post by AoAGeneral1 » Mon Oct 30, 2017 12:08 am

Well this is good news then. Looking forward to playing around with that.

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AoAGeneral1
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Post by AoAGeneral1 » Sat Dec 09, 2017 12:08 am

The engineers and Guard Tower, Gun Turret seperation is going on hold for the moment. There are a few people I need to speak to about the ongoing balances of TD and how the games have been moving along.

This in mind I am looking to start a very small list and merely just adjustments only. One example of looking to change:

MCV Cost reduced to 3800 from 4000.

This is to help a little bit with multiple build queues going while producing the MCV in a second queue. Since the 1 minute timer tends to drain on the 4000 rather quickly this should help to fix this issue rather slightly.

If there are other suggestions let me know.

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anjew
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Post by anjew » Tue Dec 19, 2017 6:36 pm

AoAGeneral1 wrote: If there are other suggestions let me know.
It's pretty much agreed that the apache needs another look. It still doesnt fit its role as anti-inf and anti-orca
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AoAGeneral1
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Post by AoAGeneral1 » Thu Dec 21, 2017 7:37 am

Gonna need yourself and a few other players up for discussion on Discord to formulate some test games them. Adjusting aircraft is actually pretty difficult to do compared to most other units making such discussions here. Once an idea is present if the issue is there I can post the info here.

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ZxGanon
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Post by ZxGanon » Sun Dec 24, 2017 11:45 am

Yeah we could do that. Apache right now just provides nice vision nothing else.

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Some points from me

Post by 010010 » Mon Dec 25, 2017 1:26 am

First Bikes need still lower HP. They are better as ltanks. In Nod mirrior is the game still Tech 1 spam only. The first 8-10min. Bike with 80HP hold still 2 mtank shots and 4 ltank shots. That means Nod vs Nod and having higher tech untis the, low tech spammer will win.

Apache needs only more nice points agains none and Light Armor. Other is not needed. Like it is a unit to counter all inf units and Arty units. Just set the reload times a bit better. After it will make also a nice counter agains Orcas. Slower in move speed but faster in firepower closley.

Ltank feels underpowered, but its a spamming unit. Main Unit what i use all the time. Cant say much about the firepower. Only one ltank will never kill any Buildings.

Orcas have a bit to much Damage. It makes sense as early unit one or 2 can finaly do some rush damage, but Orca spam is like having over 12 Orcas Game is over. Dont use skill. Just kill Buildings only.

So i am rarly online here. I said my points.
Rest is not my think. I dont use many Towers or so. Can say more about Units.

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AoAGeneral1
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Post by AoAGeneral1 » Thu Dec 28, 2017 6:02 am

Bikes aren't exactly better then light tanks. Bikes aren't as effective as light tanks in crushing infantry, or base raiding past guard towers, or dealing with APCs, buggies, and humvees. The buggy build can counter bikes and mixing bikes with infantry counters other bike players. Bikes are pretty bad against infantry. As for people going bike and buggy combos going infantry mixed with bikes can counter the buggies itself. Since having a large minigunner troop or rocket infantry will counter buggies. Having a few flame infantry to torch buggies works too. (Since often times mixing bikes together will force the player to engage at another angle.)

Bikes HP im not to convinced yet. If it takes two shots from a medium tank to kill a bike that is pretty good. Since often times people have about 5-7 medium tank armies. Four shots from a light tank is also decent since light tanks fire faster then medium tanks and having two light tanks will kill a bike quickly.

Nod is about mixing units and doesn't survive off single unit plays. IE: Bike and buggy combos. Mix light tanks with infantry or flame tanks. Mix flame tanks with bikes. Few examples that can be tried.

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For the Apache im not to convinced on increasing damage just yet on infantry. Since they two shot minigunners from their standing up position but when they are already prone they take about 4-5 shots. This means proned infantry have a hefty extra armor and take longer to kill. So increasing damage on apaches vs infantry might be a bad idea as they could end up one shotting rocket infantry.

However, for vs light armor a solution for this could be increasing their projectile speed. An issue that happened with Commandos. Since bikes and buggies move fairly quickly they tend to dodge damage given from the Apache. Increasing their projectile speed would mean their hits would land on the target more accurately. This would also fix the Apache vs Orca in dealing a little more damage vs Orcas as well.

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ZxGanon
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Post by ZxGanon » Thu Dec 28, 2017 9:22 pm

Apaches main problem now because it was changed in reload the fact that if an Apache is empty he reloads only one bullet instead of two which means he does fire only one shot.

The Orca for example shots 2 rockets each time when he reloads because he reloads 2 rockets.

I told you this AoA before you changed the Apache and I also told you it made the Apache way weaker.

Just change the reload from 1 to 2 bullets and Apache should be fine again.

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