Was there a reason the charge decay wasn't implemented or did they just never get it to work? That seems like the best way to combat the charge reset issue.
Also being able to power down defensive structures would be a nice quality of life improvement. Obelisks have 150 draw really punishes a player.
TD balance thread
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CampinJeff
- Posts: 38
- Joined: Fri Nov 06, 2015 6:01 am
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AoAGeneral1
- Posts: 597
- Joined: Wed Apr 29, 2015 6:11 pm
@Blackened
The charge delay was actually an idea implemented. Not a lot of people realized the issue of the Obelisk until a closer inspection. Originally I wanted it to fire instantly on the first shot then charge but it looked a little odd in the animation. So the charge up idea was brought in.
A power down feature would be nice I think but I do sorta like the punishment it comes with having low power. I think TD at one point was supposed to since it has a hotkey for it but im not sure if im right or not.
The power of the Obelisk is something ive known. I have a ton of ideas in tinkering with it. IE:
Obelisk power reduced from 150 to 125-100.
Obelisk damage tinkering.
Obelisk HP increase from 600-650.
But none of these matter if the damned thing cant do damage lol.
@CampinJeff
Ive been considering raising some of the power on defenses. I don't want to raise it on GT though because they provide early good defenses. (Specially against vehicle rushes).
Gun turrets I could do something like maybe from 20 to 30-40. AGTs I could do something from 50 to 60-75.
----------------
The bottom line:
I want to prevent nerfing the price on the harv and refs. I want to try increasing the build timers on harvs first. I think adding the ref and silos capacity changes is a nice idea but maybe adding 600 to refs instead of 500.
Im also able to play around with the payload of the Harvs so they carry less per load but that seems kind of pointless if you can get multiple refs going at once.
The charge delay was actually an idea implemented. Not a lot of people realized the issue of the Obelisk until a closer inspection. Originally I wanted it to fire instantly on the first shot then charge but it looked a little odd in the animation. So the charge up idea was brought in.
A power down feature would be nice I think but I do sorta like the punishment it comes with having low power. I think TD at one point was supposed to since it has a hotkey for it but im not sure if im right or not.
The power of the Obelisk is something ive known. I have a ton of ideas in tinkering with it. IE:
Obelisk power reduced from 150 to 125-100.
Obelisk damage tinkering.
Obelisk HP increase from 600-650.
But none of these matter if the damned thing cant do damage lol.
@CampinJeff
Ive been considering raising some of the power on defenses. I don't want to raise it on GT though because they provide early good defenses. (Specially against vehicle rushes).
Gun turrets I could do something like maybe from 20 to 30-40. AGTs I could do something from 50 to 60-75.
----------------
The bottom line:
I want to prevent nerfing the price on the harv and refs. I want to try increasing the build timers on harvs first. I think adding the ref and silos capacity changes is a nice idea but maybe adding 600 to refs instead of 500.
Im also able to play around with the payload of the Harvs so they carry less per load but that seems kind of pointless if you can get multiple refs going at once.
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AoAGeneral1
- Posts: 597
- Joined: Wed Apr 29, 2015 6:11 pm
At 500 it seems to hold since you are spending while the load is emptied which is enough time for the harvester to depart. Going at 700 would be the definition but might encourage refinery stacking (IE: 1400 at 2 refs and 2100 at 3 refs).
The current list below are ideas only and not implemented in anything:
Temple of Nod, Adv Com Center, Com Center detection radius increase from 5c0 to 10c0. (Add detection to Temple.)
Artillery range increased from 11c0 to 12c0.
Guard Tower damage vs heavy reduced from 30 to 15.
Mammoth Tank HP increase from 800 to 825.
Ion time increase from 3:00 to 4:30.
Nuke timer from 5 to 6.
Nuke damage spread from 2c512 to 5c512.
A10 timer increased from 3:30 to 4:00.
MSAM HP from 120 to 180.
Commando weapon range increased from 6c0 to 8c0.
Commando weapon projectile speed increased from 1c682 to 5c682.
Husks interval timer increased from 2 to 7.
SAM range (Problem. Both AGT and Sam use same missile. Create new AA weapon for AGT.)
MLRS minimum range increased from 3c0 to 4c0. (Cannot shoot as close)
Bike damage increase from 30 to 32.
Chem damage vs none reduced from 100 to 50.
Chem damage vs armor increased from 50 to 75.
Grenadier accuracy reduced from 213 to 1c0. (Makes them miss a lot more)
Flamer damage vs armor reduced from 20 to 10.
Harv build timer increase from 24 to 29.
Refinery power reduced from 50 to 40.
Refinery sell no longer refunds. (Requires feedback)
AGT HP from 600 to 550.
Light Tank price reduced from 700 to 650. (Requires more testing)
Visceroid spawn reduce from 10 to 5.
Obelisk Mechanic https://github.com/OpenRA/OpenRA/issues/11415
Grenadier/Chem Mechanic https://github.com/OpenRA/OpenRA/issues/11409
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NOTES:
Buggies and Hummers.
Im looking to do some experimenting with the buggy and hummer. Since the price difference between these two units I would like to try increasing the buggy speed by a very slight margin and the hummer HP by a slight increase and see how this rolls out. Going to play around with this and see how it works.
Artillery.
The artillery damage spread modifier is something ive been tweaking around. Doing spread increases does more damage in packed armies. This needs to be tweaked and tested as this could make the unit far to strong.
Detection radius on defenses.
I have some ideas on defenses to increase the detection for cloaked units by a very small margin. Requires more work.
Gun Turret thoughts.
Im looking to do some experimenting with the gun turrets. Changing the price from 600 to 500 and the power from 20 to 10. But im not sure on the power just yet with how strong they can be. Specially if I have some ideas to give them a HP increase. (IE: HP from 400 to 415)
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-=+PRIORITY NUMBER ONE+=-
I want the Obelisk fixed. https://github.com/OpenRA/OpenRA/issues/11415 Its been an incredibly long time since these structures had any sort of use because of their firing issues. Nod has strong potential but they lack the base defenses that stands up to some of GDIs abilities. There are a few plans I have for the obelisk as far as testing goes and moving it around in the tech tree (IE: Com Center tech) but none of this matters if it has a firing bug. This is going to be the main and major focus before any other balance is released.
------------------------------------------
Developers:
I know the devs are hard at work and often times stressing themselves out. So things like the mentioned above on the obelisk I won't bother in doing until later on. Much of the hard work is seen in the games and it shows. Bugs will always crop up but that is the life and way of life. (As unfortunate as it is). Big thanks to the devs for their continued work and support on multiple operating systems and future plans. Just don't overwork
The current list below are ideas only and not implemented in anything:
Temple of Nod, Adv Com Center, Com Center detection radius increase from 5c0 to 10c0. (Add detection to Temple.)
Artillery range increased from 11c0 to 12c0.
Guard Tower damage vs heavy reduced from 30 to 15.
Mammoth Tank HP increase from 800 to 825.
Ion time increase from 3:00 to 4:30.
Nuke timer from 5 to 6.
Nuke damage spread from 2c512 to 5c512.
A10 timer increased from 3:30 to 4:00.
MSAM HP from 120 to 180.
Commando weapon range increased from 6c0 to 8c0.
Commando weapon projectile speed increased from 1c682 to 5c682.
Husks interval timer increased from 2 to 7.
SAM range (Problem. Both AGT and Sam use same missile. Create new AA weapon for AGT.)
MLRS minimum range increased from 3c0 to 4c0. (Cannot shoot as close)
Bike damage increase from 30 to 32.
Chem damage vs none reduced from 100 to 50.
Chem damage vs armor increased from 50 to 75.
Grenadier accuracy reduced from 213 to 1c0. (Makes them miss a lot more)
Flamer damage vs armor reduced from 20 to 10.
Harv build timer increase from 24 to 29.
Refinery power reduced from 50 to 40.
Refinery sell no longer refunds. (Requires feedback)
AGT HP from 600 to 550.
Light Tank price reduced from 700 to 650. (Requires more testing)
Visceroid spawn reduce from 10 to 5.
Obelisk Mechanic https://github.com/OpenRA/OpenRA/issues/11415
Grenadier/Chem Mechanic https://github.com/OpenRA/OpenRA/issues/11409
------------------------------------
NOTES:
Buggies and Hummers.
Im looking to do some experimenting with the buggy and hummer. Since the price difference between these two units I would like to try increasing the buggy speed by a very slight margin and the hummer HP by a slight increase and see how this rolls out. Going to play around with this and see how it works.
Artillery.
The artillery damage spread modifier is something ive been tweaking around. Doing spread increases does more damage in packed armies. This needs to be tweaked and tested as this could make the unit far to strong.
Detection radius on defenses.
I have some ideas on defenses to increase the detection for cloaked units by a very small margin. Requires more work.
Gun Turret thoughts.
Im looking to do some experimenting with the gun turrets. Changing the price from 600 to 500 and the power from 20 to 10. But im not sure on the power just yet with how strong they can be. Specially if I have some ideas to give them a HP increase. (IE: HP from 400 to 415)
------------------------------------------
-=+PRIORITY NUMBER ONE+=-
I want the Obelisk fixed. https://github.com/OpenRA/OpenRA/issues/11415 Its been an incredibly long time since these structures had any sort of use because of their firing issues. Nod has strong potential but they lack the base defenses that stands up to some of GDIs abilities. There are a few plans I have for the obelisk as far as testing goes and moving it around in the tech tree (IE: Com Center tech) but none of this matters if it has a firing bug. This is going to be the main and major focus before any other balance is released.
------------------------------------------
Developers:
I know the devs are hard at work and often times stressing themselves out. So things like the mentioned above on the obelisk I won't bother in doing until later on. Much of the hard work is seen in the games and it shows. Bugs will always crop up but that is the life and way of life. (As unfortunate as it is). Big thanks to the devs for their continued work and support on multiple operating systems and future plans. Just don't overwork
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CampinJeff
- Posts: 38
- Joined: Fri Nov 06, 2015 6:01 am
Curious how this came up, I dont necessarily disagreeAoAGeneral1 wrote: ↑ Guard Tower damage vs heavy reduced from 30 to 15.
These look like really nice changes to the superpowers. Very curious about the nuke spread though, I would love to test it out.AoAGeneral1 wrote: ↑ Ion time increase from 3:00 to 4:30.
Nuke timer from 5 to 6.
Nuke damage spread from 2c512 to 5c512.
A10 timer increased from 3:30 to 4:00.
Not your fault but this should have been in the current release, this is the change im probably most excited about.AoAGeneral1 wrote: ↑ Commando weapon range increased from 6c0 to 8c0.
Commando weapon projectile speed increased from 1c682 to 5c682.
Definitely want to test this, with the incoming commando change it could be interestingAoAGeneral1 wrote: ↑ Chem damage vs none reduced from 100 to 50.
Chem damage vs armor increased from 50 to 75.
When we tested this is seemed that the grenadiers were much better at being anti-infatry. I can't remember what else but it actually made the grenadiers seem better.AoAGeneral1 wrote: ↑ Grenadier accuracy reduced from 213 to 1c0. (Makes them miss a lot more)
If you sell up with no refund you only lose 500 which is usually spent on making units. I think this is a good thing as it still promotes ref selling its just not as effective.AoAGeneral1 wrote: ↑ Refinery sell no longer refunds. (Requires feedback)
Is this with the same build time? If so, I like itAoAGeneral1 wrote: ↑ Light Tank price reduced from 700 to 650. (Requires more testing)
I like your idea. Right now i just need to wait for the GDI hummer to take a tiny bit of damage then harass the unit with the buggy while it attempts to retreat.AoAGeneral1 wrote: ↑ Buggies and Hummers.
I like the RA gun turret personally. It deals with tanks quite effectively because of its range and speed. It may have more damage thoughAoAGeneral1 wrote: ↑ Gun Turret thoughts.
Thank you devsAoAGeneral1 wrote: ↑ Developers:
I know the devs are hard at work and often times stressing themselves out. So things like the mentioned above on the obelisk I won't bother in doing until later on. Much of the hard work is seen in the games and it shows. Bugs will always crop up but that is the life and way of life. (As unfortunate as it is). Big thanks to the devs for their continued work and support on multiple operating systems and future plans. Just don't overwork
This is referring to the flame troopers.CampinJeff wrote: ↑Looks great, but some don't make sense to me. Mammoth and bike buffs in particular.
And by Flamer vs armor, is that flame troopers or flame tanks?
I understand the mammoth buff, in a GDI vs GDI match the player who spams mtnks will usually win since switch to mammoth will put you behind not only in production time but cumulatively they can deal less damage then properly micro'd mtnks
Bike buff is edgy, I think this is to help counter mtnks and mammoth. If mammoths are buffed then ltnks are a bit more ineffective against mammoth which mean you need to incorporate bikes. Maybe buff harv health if bikes get a buff?
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AoAGeneral1
- Posts: 597
- Joined: Wed Apr 29, 2015 6:11 pm
Mammoth Tanks reason:
Its so it can combat the bikes a little better. Since the Mammoth tank will be getting an HP buff (Possibly more then the one listed here) it will make bikes a little more effective against them. I agree with anjew and plan to increase the HP on harvs a bit. Maybe 600 to 625.
Gun Turret:
There are somethings I want to do such as 600 to 500 cost and 20 to 10 power with HP from 400 to 415+ (Possibly more). This will allow them to do a bit more damage against tanks and other units. If all goes well this could lead to the idea of GDI having guard towers only and Nod with gun turrets only. In which case can be buffed a bit more. I don't fully agree on having them like they are as RA because they out range tanks and do a lot more damage.
Light Tanks:
Build time remains the same.
Refinery:
It needs some testing with the silo change because selling the ref if you aren't careful will actually make you lose money lol. So I may not need to do a sell trick ref nerf.
Grenadiers:
Aye they do more splash damage and become very effective at not just infantry but tanks and structures too. They will follow the same mechanic as CNC95.
Chems:
They need some tweaking around and testing. I plan to do some changes on the flame infantry as well (Such as the armor vs heavy damage).
Commandos:
Yep.
Superweapons:
The Ion timer I feel is good at 4:30 without even testing it (Which of course needs testing). The A10 im a little iffy on but will see. Might need a slight timer increase. The Nuke at that damage spread is actually really good. But needs testing to make sure it isnt overkill.
Guard Towers:
Reason being is because they do a little to much damage to light tanks and medium tanks. APCs is another too but can test it out and see what is thought of it.
Its so it can combat the bikes a little better. Since the Mammoth tank will be getting an HP buff (Possibly more then the one listed here) it will make bikes a little more effective against them. I agree with anjew and plan to increase the HP on harvs a bit. Maybe 600 to 625.
Gun Turret:
There are somethings I want to do such as 600 to 500 cost and 20 to 10 power with HP from 400 to 415+ (Possibly more). This will allow them to do a bit more damage against tanks and other units. If all goes well this could lead to the idea of GDI having guard towers only and Nod with gun turrets only. In which case can be buffed a bit more. I don't fully agree on having them like they are as RA because they out range tanks and do a lot more damage.
Light Tanks:
Build time remains the same.
Refinery:
It needs some testing with the silo change because selling the ref if you aren't careful will actually make you lose money lol. So I may not need to do a sell trick ref nerf.
Grenadiers:
Aye they do more splash damage and become very effective at not just infantry but tanks and structures too. They will follow the same mechanic as CNC95.
Chems:
They need some tweaking around and testing. I plan to do some changes on the flame infantry as well (Such as the armor vs heavy damage).
Commandos:
Yep.
Superweapons:
The Ion timer I feel is good at 4:30 without even testing it (Which of course needs testing). The A10 im a little iffy on but will see. Might need a slight timer increase. The Nuke at that damage spread is actually really good. But needs testing to make sure it isnt overkill.
Guard Towers:
Reason being is because they do a little to much damage to light tanks and medium tanks. APCs is another too but can test it out and see what is thought of it.
would be nice if you could add a 1v1, 2v2 and a 3v3 map to be able to see whats a good idea and whats not necessary. not sure about the superpowers and some other stuff.
on paper some changes may look interesting but doesnt mean it will work ingame, so best to have some popular smaller and bigger maps to be able test all the changes together with the other player to see how it actually goes (especially 2v2+ games) and to get good feedback.
and yeah, its amazing to see the developer developing and developing, the playtester, github bugfinder guys, map/modmaker, the youtuber and all others who just love openra.
so many years now.. <3
on paper some changes may look interesting but doesnt mean it will work ingame, so best to have some popular smaller and bigger maps to be able test all the changes together with the other player to see how it actually goes (especially 2v2+ games) and to get good feedback.
and yeah, its amazing to see the developer developing and developing, the playtester, github bugfinder guys, map/modmaker, the youtuber and all others who just love openra.
so many years now.. <3
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AoAGeneral1
- Posts: 597
- Joined: Wed Apr 29, 2015 6:11 pm
Aye im planning on 1v1 2v2 and 3v3 map. Going with the most popular and balanced ones (AKA Deterring, Manufacturing, Haos ridges. Though Haos ridges is a bit overplayed so might do a different 3v3)
Once those are up ill created one more batch for two different map types.
Im actually going on vacation on the 30th of October until November 15th. So I will have it setup before then and allow players to go rampage over it. Once im back ill check the forums and do a feedback collection. (Will be able to check forums on vacation time though.)
EDIT:
I also forgot to mention about starting units. GDI starting with a humvee only with no random unit spawns and Nod starting with a buggy with no random spawns.
Debating on having Nod start with a bike only as well though.
Once those are up ill created one more batch for two different map types.
Im actually going on vacation on the 30th of October until November 15th. So I will have it setup before then and allow players to go rampage over it. Once im back ill check the forums and do a feedback collection. (Will be able to check forums on vacation time though.)
EDIT:
I also forgot to mention about starting units. GDI starting with a humvee only with no random unit spawns and Nod starting with a buggy with no random spawns.
Debating on having Nod start with a bike only as well though.
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CampinJeff
- Posts: 38
- Joined: Fri Nov 06, 2015 6:01 am
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AoAGeneral1
- Posts: 597
- Joined: Wed Apr 29, 2015 6:11 pm
Ive been debating on the light tank price but im going to keep it at 650 for testing purposes. A majority of the games have been faulty (IE: Krisu on stream) by having a large pool of money in the starting areas. (Double trees, large tib fields, easy expansions, etc). These sort of collections need testing with the silos idea. I should later on today have a few test maps up and going.
There might be some additional testing on gun turrets as well. anjew made some points about the light tanks so I am curious about a few things. HP for gun turrets from 400 to 410 as one example while possibly testing its range. But this is a little iffy on me as I don't want it to turn into RA but I think the gun turrets might be a little underwhelming. (IE: building GTs to counter infantry and light vehicles. Increase gun turrets vs light vehicles?)
EDIT:
I haven't been able to get the edited map to work. Not sure if something in the way of making edited rules has changed but I haven't been able to get one created lol
There might be some additional testing on gun turrets as well. anjew made some points about the light tanks so I am curious about a few things. HP for gun turrets from 400 to 410 as one example while possibly testing its range. But this is a little iffy on me as I don't want it to turn into RA but I think the gun turrets might be a little underwhelming. (IE: building GTs to counter infantry and light vehicles. Increase gun turrets vs light vehicles?)
EDIT:
I haven't been able to get the edited map to work. Not sure if something in the way of making edited rules has changed but I haven't been able to get one created lol
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AoAGeneral1
- Posts: 597
- Joined: Wed Apr 29, 2015 6:11 pm
Posting an update.
I still haven't figured out on how to work custom maps with the code lines. Not sure what is changed or im doing wrong but I haven't been able to come up with any. So im going to go back to doing local testing.
Playing around with some chinooks and finding out they are a tad bit to slow for their use. APCs and a few other units are able to catch up to them fairly easily. Im looking to test a change on this with this:
Chinook speed increase from 140 to 170.
Not a lot of use is with these units and im starting to see why. They are primarily used for early rush tricks or very late game. Making these a little faster will hopefully provide more viability with them.
------------------------
With these changes in mind in the previous postings by Friday my activity will be minimal as I will be busy on my vacation time at a friends place working on videos. I may pop up on a stream or two but I will provide more details on that later. Continue posting in this thread for ideas and suggestions. Thanks for all the helps guys you are le awesome!
I still haven't figured out on how to work custom maps with the code lines. Not sure what is changed or im doing wrong but I haven't been able to come up with any. So im going to go back to doing local testing.
Playing around with some chinooks and finding out they are a tad bit to slow for their use. APCs and a few other units are able to catch up to them fairly easily. Im looking to test a change on this with this:
Chinook speed increase from 140 to 170.
Not a lot of use is with these units and im starting to see why. They are primarily used for early rush tricks or very late game. Making these a little faster will hopefully provide more viability with them.
------------------------
With these changes in mind in the previous postings by Friday my activity will be minimal as I will be busy on my vacation time at a friends place working on videos. I may pop up on a stream or two but I will provide more details on that later. Continue posting in this thread for ideas and suggestions. Thanks for all the helps guys you are le awesome!
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CampinJeff
- Posts: 38
- Joined: Fri Nov 06, 2015 6:01 am
Apaches should probably be 1000 instead of 1200, so they can trade with mrls more efficiently.
Flame tanks I feel are in a weird spot. At start of games, they feel so dominant against a GDI opponent, particularly one that didn't go for fast tanks. APCs are the only source of heavy armor to eat fire damage, but don't deal much damage in return themselves. Late game, though, they become nearly obsolete unless an opponent is going mass infantry. Even then, artillery would be a better choice. I'm honestly not sure what to suggest that would nerf their early game while making them more potent later. Maybe play around with prereqs?
Flame tanks I feel are in a weird spot. At start of games, they feel so dominant against a GDI opponent, particularly one that didn't go for fast tanks. APCs are the only source of heavy armor to eat fire damage, but don't deal much damage in return themselves. Late game, though, they become nearly obsolete unless an opponent is going mass infantry. Even then, artillery would be a better choice. I'm honestly not sure what to suggest that would nerf their early game while making them more potent later. Maybe play around with prereqs?