You need to allow us to powersnake/base-walk with a toggle

Discussion about the game and its default mods.
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folkilsk
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You need to allow us to powersnake/base-walk with a toggle

Post by folkilsk » Sat Nov 22, 2014 1:53 pm

...on a server per server basis. Admin decides.
It's WAS tactic that makes ra the most fun, imo.
I know it was removed AGES ago but still...

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Sleipnir
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Post by Sleipnir » Sat Nov 22, 2014 9:17 pm

This is a pretty controversial topic, and has been discussed in #4378 and on IRC. I'm personally all for doing this, but haven't added the feature myself because I don't want it enough to want to deal with the inevitable arguments that will occur when the pull request is filed.

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Speedy
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Post by Speedy » Sun Nov 23, 2014 1:21 am

I do have to kinda wonder what the issue against a toggleable option specifically.

It seems the general consensus in the thread was 'yeah we want base radius', but nobody is talking about REMOVING the base radius- just making it a toggleable option.

Feels kinda like a 'we could make a group of (potential new) players happy by adding a toggle that makes us lose nothing OR we could ignore them completely cause we like how it is now' situation.

Adding a toggle seems like a win-win; people who dislike base radiuses can play without, people who like them can play with.
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Matt
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Post by Matt » Sun Nov 23, 2014 9:17 am

I guess someone who really cares about a base walk game-play needs to send a pull request.

There was a consensus in the past that the lobby should not decide how the game is played, but the mod or the individual map rules. The idea behind this is that drastic gameplay on/off features need rebalancing of all units and buildings to compensate. If you remove the build radius you have to make turrets weaker or slower to build etc. or if you turn off the shroud then the GPS and gap generators loose their purpose. However it turned out the community is too small and non-technical to sustain their own balancing mods and maps so that new check-boxes crept into the lobby similar to the ones found in the original games. You could argue that the damage has already been done in other areas of game options and the design rule has been abolished.

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Prince Blueblood
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Post by Prince Blueblood » Sun Nov 23, 2014 11:35 am

we can still "Basewalk" but now, at least you need second MCv and you must manage the second MCV deployment and redeployments.

Base walking give Allies too much Advantage IMHO, because in current balance, the allies and sovietsa are pretty much equal, even with Allies' 14 range arty (who quite weak against light tanks & APCs)

giving Allies capability to protect their arty without second MCv to build their "basewalk" (and hence, covering their weakness over fast attack force) further is outragerous because this means they can shoot from complete safety now.
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thezoidberg
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Post by thezoidberg » Sun Nov 23, 2014 7:43 pm

If this is the "thing" where an opposing player builds a long line of power plants leading up to (and often inside of) my base, I'm going to say "nope nope nope." I recall this being very popular among "cheap" players some time ago. Really takes the fun out of the game.

:x

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SoScared
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Post by SoScared » Sun Nov 23, 2014 11:53 pm

An option to turn off build radius? In that case turning it off in the lobby should automatically sound an alarm because no way in hell am I going back playing that mess. I mean look at the games we're playing now. Being forced to build or move MCV's has greatly increased the use of units and a ton of new strategies are developing.

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BaronOfStuff
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Post by BaronOfStuff » Mon Nov 24, 2014 12:56 am

The main issue with basewalking in OpenRA was when allies would all build off each other, resulting in absurd and unstoppable snaking into a target. Having separate build menus for Main/Defence structures only adds to the problem. This further resulted in an absolute curbstomping for whichever poor bastard was on the receiving end, and then it was gg no re once one team of basewalkers couldn't keep up with the production rate of the other. Games were less about strategy and more about who could mash hotkeys the fastest.

I don't miss the days when games were basewalk-after-basewalk-after-basewalk one iota. If you want that, go back to RA95 and CnCNet 4.

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JOo
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Post by JOo » Mon Nov 24, 2014 9:56 pm

actually , im convinced ... that this isnt a good idea , so i do not want a option to toggle Buildradius
Last edited by JOo on Wed Nov 26, 2014 2:28 pm, edited 3 times in total.

Hoj
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Post by Hoj » Tue Nov 25, 2014 5:03 pm

SoScared wrote: An option to turn off build radius? In that case turning it off in the lobby should automatically sound an alarm because no way in hell am I going back playing that mess. I mean look at the games we're playing now. Being forced to build or move MCV's has greatly increased the use of units and a ton of new strategies are developing.
It should say "base radius on/off" or something. I think OpenRA should allow you to play like the original if you want. I do like the base radius too now, but was absolutely fuming when it was first added. I thought RA was ruined for ever.

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Post by thezoidberg » Tue Nov 25, 2014 7:20 pm

I've always seen OpenRA existing for the purpose of improving upon the original Red Alert. They dev guys have done a great job of forcing players to come up with coordinated tactics and strategies to win. Enabling players to disable those changes defeats the purpose of playing OpenRA. It'll also create confusion among players because gameplay could change from game to game...

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SoScared
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Post by SoScared » Tue Nov 25, 2014 7:33 pm

JOo wrote: @SoScared : if we had an option to "enable" the buildradius ... it would help to make the AI somehwhat stronger ... as it is now ... would that be interesting for you ?
Interesting. But in that case I think it would have to be a default feature for the AI. I mean few are gonna bother with fiddling with the options every time they want to play skirmish.

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folkilsk
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Post by folkilsk » Wed Nov 26, 2014 3:38 am

JOo wrote: @SoScared : if we had an option to "enable" the buildradius ... it would help to make the AI somehwhat stronger ... as it is now ... would that be interesting for you ?

i personally dont care anymore , because i allready made my Tickets for "show a debug message , once the admin is changing the options" ... so ... i dont say "no" ... to , adding a option for -buildradius- (as long as you dont touch the default radius "on" .. serious players want serious games !)

i always take position behind the regulars and pros ... who spend alot of time playing this game ... so ... its not important to please 5 new Noobs ... its important to hear what the Core-Players want ... because they "still" play OpenRA
Listen kid, I don't know what your deal is. Me and my friends ARE pro player. We've been playing openRa since day one, and ra since way back before you were even born. You are just a scared little boy who can't handle a real mans game. You know you would be RAPED if you played a power-snaking man like myself or Hoj, craywyn,xela or tiago


JOHN, I BET THIS LIL KIDDO CAN'T TAME A RAT-TANK LIKE US

AoAGeneral
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Post by AoAGeneral » Wed Nov 26, 2014 11:00 am

[/quote]
Listen kid, I don't know what your deal is. Me and my friends ARE pro player. We've been playing openRa since day one, and ra since way back before you were even born. You are just a scared little boy who can't handle a real mans game. You know you would be RAPED if you played a power-snaking man like myself or Hoj, craywyn,xela or tiago


JOHN, I BET THIS LIL KIDDO CAN'T TAME A RAT-TANK LIKE US[/quote]

Or the game just isnt fun to play that way. As these players have expressed. Which means you clearly missed the point of the replies to this thread. GG.

By the way, coming off strong like this doesnt show your expertise. It shows quite the opposite. Instead of calling out, try making examples.

Hoj
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Post by Hoj » Wed Nov 26, 2014 12:43 pm

JOo started it by calling us 5 new noobs. We aren't new to RA, we have played it since the old days and play openRA a lot too - there's really no need to insult us. All we wanted to do was suggest a toggle for build radius...?

I could just as easily say build radius is for noobs who can't handle playing the game as it was intended, but I don't as that has no relevance to the discussion.

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