CnC Tiberian Dawn Strategy/Balance discussion thread

Discussion about the game and its default mods.
AgentAAA
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CnC Tiberian Dawn Strategy/Balance discussion thread

Post by AgentAAA »

I figured that General discussion should have some discussion topics, and this one seemed like a good basic topic.
This thread is basically here to Discuss the Tiberian dawn mod's strategies and balance, and what you'd like to see changed.
Starter topic is: Favorite unit in the mod
And I'll go with the Recon bike.

foul_owl
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Joined: Sat Apr 14, 2012 10:58 pm

Post by foul_owl »

I think perhaps the MRLS is a bit too powerful. Usually I'll have a bunch of units near my base that get hit with a barrage of rockets, but the location of the attacking MRLS doesn't get revealed. I'm uncertain if this is by design, but I seem to recall in either the original C&C or RA that if a unit shoots at you, the location is revealed. The main issue being that I am unable to return fire as I can't locate the MRLS before all my units are annihilated. It also seems like it can hit artillery without the artillery being able to hit it.

It's probably my favorite unit to use though, mostly due to the ridiculous range. ;)

AgentAAA
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Post by AgentAAA »

the MLRS is incredibly powerful in the current game Meta, due to how quick the projectile speed and damage is(The rate at which an artillery shell travels, conversely, allows the MLRS to quickly fire, and then promptly move out of the way of the incoming shell)

Good ways to deal with MLRS as Nod include using recon bikes to outmaneuver them, stealth tanks to ambush them, or trying to sidle a flame tank on past to do a devastating one-burst kill. There's also the usage of Apache's, though MLRS aren't as fragile as Artillery and are a bit harder for the Apache to quickly kill.

As for GDI, the go-to response should be Orcas - I'm not familiar with GDI, but to suggest a tactic... Ever considered sliding an apc around the enemy frontlines? APC's are fast and do a lot of damage to light armor units, including the MLRS, so it might be a good tactic to try.

Ripsn
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PEOW PEOW

Post by Ripsn »

call me turtle,
i love the advanced Defense tower.
even just the lingering image of where one USED TO BE is enough to make your enemy second guess that attack,
and it attacks EVERYTHING......BONUS

Natharias
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Post by Natharias »

MRLS kinda suck compared to a MCV infiltration.

I snuck in an MCV in one of my friend's bases once while I threw my army at him. Sure I lost every unit, but I started building Obelisks in his base and took out his Construction Yard before he could respond.

By the time I had lost my buildings in his base, I had taken out his Construction Yard, both War Factories, two power plants, and a handful of units afterwards.

Ultimate troll move is fun.

psydev
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Post by psydev »

I designed a lot of the balance for CNC, if anyone has any questions about the design choices I made please ask. Some things might seem arbitrary or like they need fixing, but most everything was chosen to be the way it is for a reason (to balance it properly vs. other units and structures). Some of those decisions might not be obvious.

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SoScared
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Post by SoScared »

NOD's Apache - I haven't played TD much until recently in the tournament. I've just reviewed a couple of those games and I gotta question the rationale of the NOD Apache's notorious reloading. I could tolerate the auto-reloading slowly like 1 peg (on the munitions bar) at a time but fully reloading it's arsenal every like 5 seconds just feels way out of proportion. What are people's thoughts on this?

psydev
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Post by psydev »

SoScared wrote: NOD's Apache - I haven't played TD much until recently in the tournament. I've just reviewed a couple of those games and I gotta question the rationale of the NOD Apache's notorious reloading. I could tolerate the auto-reloading slowly like 1 peg (on the munitions bar) at a time but fully reloading it's arsenal every like 5 seconds just feels way out of proportion. What are people's thoughts on this?
Apparently there's a bug relating to reloading. The game miscalculates the time to start counting from.

The Nod Apache is supposed to take 4 seconds to fire its payload. Total reload time is 8 seconds. I think it's *supposed* to start counting once you begin firing, so it should be 4 seconds firing, 4 seconds off.

psydev
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Post by psydev »

AgentAAA wrote: As for GDI, the go-to response should be Orcas - I'm not familiar with GDI, but to suggest a tactic... Ever considered sliding an apc around the enemy frontlines? APC's are fast and do a lot of damage to light armor units, including the MLRS, so it might be a good tactic to try.
The MLRS has a minimum range of 3. If there are two close together, you can get close with a fast unit and kill them. Or if they are spread out, you can put something like a bike or buggy next to them and the other MLRS will shoot at it, killing your unit but their MLRS too.

Flame tank is also actually kind of fast so it's not bad at chasing artillery. Also, when it dies it makes a big explosion, which can make them good for suicide attacks next to formations of enemy infantry or artillery.

APCs are definitely adequate vs. light vehicles and are fast and tough enough to maneuver close to MLRS or artillery. You could also conceivably drop off a lot of infantry next to the MLRS and then run off.

psydev
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Post by psydev »

My suggestions for TD:

- Make Orca do better damage vs. heavy armor, and have its payload contain a bit more damage.
- Change Artillery's probably of big explosion from 100% -> 75%
- Reduce Chem Trooper range from 3 to 2.5

Possibly:
- Nerf Mammoth Tank a bit. Reduce HP from anywhere between 725-825
- Reduce Mobile SAM launcher range from 10 -> 8 or so

foul_owl
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Post by foul_owl »

After playing for two months, I have to say I think the sides are balanced pretty damn well. The MRLS thing was just a quick first impression. I usually take those out now with hit and run attacks with aircraft.

One thing that drives me nuts though is that fog of war doesn't clear around the unit that is shooting at you, as it did in the original RA and TD. What do folks think about that?

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Speedy
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Post by Speedy »

It DID bother me, too, to be honest, but at the same time I'm wondering if that might not just be a part of added strategy..

A lot of games seem to temporarily lift the shroud when you're getting shot at, but alot of times it doesn't make sense..

AoAGeneral
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Mammoth Tanks

Post by AoAGeneral »

Reduction in HP on the Mammoth Tanks. Then see what happens from there.

Currently the Mammoth Tanks are extremely powerful and used as an all purpose unit for anything. The only thing that stops them currently is obelisk towers.

People have tried using Stealth tanks (( Since they outrange the tanks a fair bit )) and use kite pulling tactics. Splitting my tanks into smaller groups/sending four backwards to chase em while the other tanks push forward to destruct the base.

Perhaps the 700-800 reduction range you mentioned might actualy help.

Ive played only a few matches as nod so I cant really comentate on that. What I would love is to fight a cloning strategy of this to myself while im playing Nod just to see if its beatable.

EDIT: However, there is an alternative which you can also add the requirement of the service depot to be needed to build the Mammoth Tanks alongside the Advanced communication center. My C&C95 knowledge is a little rusty and I will have to look at it again, but didnt C&C95 require the depot before to build them?

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BaronOfStuff
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Re: Mammoth Tanks

Post by BaronOfStuff »

AoAGeneral wrote: My C&C95 knowledge is a little rusty and I will have to look at it again, but didnt C&C95 require the depot before to build (Mammoth Tanks)?
Yep. C&C95 had a few units with arguably bizarre prerequisites. The SSML needing an Obelisk of Light is another one.

AoAGeneral
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Post by AoAGeneral »

Some units required odd things I do agree with that.

The service depot made sense with the Mammoth however because it auto heals to halfway.

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